I’ve Reached My PC Limit (v, county, supporter, Army)

[helenejen]

Originally Posted by Spikett

I am not blind, willfully or otherwise. I am very aware that the flag has been used by racist organizations. But unlike some people, I can see deeper than that.

And yet you obviously do not, because when posters start engaging in white power talk you not only do not condemn it you excuse it.

Originally Posted by Spikett

Indeed, you seem to be the one who is blinded - you can't see past the KKK so you have to attack everyone and anything you can manage to twist into a connection in your shallow reasoning (or lack thereof).

Wrong. I brought up the KKK when there was clear white power talk going on. You excused it. Own it.

And you fail to see that I have no problem with people flying the confederate flag. Go ahead. It's essentially free speech. But don't fly that flag on State property.

Originally Posted by Spikett

And I'm not claiming to be a victim. I'm just mad. None of this hurts my feelings, for crying out loud. I just think it's stupid, intellectually dishonest, prejudiced.

Sorry but your opening post was clearly set up as a narrative of victimization from the get-go:

Originally Posted by Spikett

Since the Charleston shooting I’ve found myself being pushed more and more to the right.

See how you cast yourself as without agency? Be mad all you want. It beats being a victim. But my god. The Dukes of Hazzard being canceled on a channel no one watches is one of the ways you are being pushed around? Please.

[mtl1]

Originally Posted by helenejen

And yet you obviously do not, because when posters start engaging in white power talk you not only do not condemn it you excuse it.

You engage in anti-white talk.

Wrong. I brought up the KKK when there was clear white power talk going on. You
excused it. Own it.

You bring up KKK to try to label others. This is offensive.

And you fail to see that I have no problem with people flying the confederate
flag. Go ahead. It's essentially free speech. But don't fly that flag on State
property.

That's not your decision to make. That's for the people of the State and legislature to decide. They've done that for 50 years now and you don't want to accept it.

See how you cast yourself as without agency? Be mad all you want. It beats being a victim. But my god. The Dukes of Hazzard being canceled on a channel no one watches is one of the ways you are being pushed around? Please.

How about if we start canceling other shows when a Hispanic or black person commits interracial crime? That wouldn't be pushing them around would it?

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Spartacus713

It does represent heritage more than bigotry. The only people who say otherwise are in fact the real bigots here. Anti-Southern white bigots.

If the shoe fits....

Oh pleeze. I have lived most of my life in the south, how the hell am I anti south then? What is being anti south?, because I see it as part of the united states of America. There is only one flag that represents the south, along with the west, east and north and that is the American flag. You are 155 years too late to say the confederate flag represents the south.

[helenejen]

Originally Posted by mtl1

You engage in anti-white talk.

I did not engage in anti-white talk. But it might have sounded that way to someone who prances around in a white sheet and hood.

Originally Posted by mtl1

You bring up KKK to try to label others. This is offensive.

You are fooling no one, except maybe the OP. You don't find it offensive. You are proud of the comparison.

Originally Posted by mtl1

That's not your decision to make. That's for the people of the State and legislature to decide. They've done that for 50 years now and you don't want to accept it.

Sorry but I'm allowed to have an opinion. Or are you against free speech too? And obviously the States are deciding it even now, aren't they.

Originally Posted by mtl1

How about if we start canceling other shows when a Hispanic or black person commits interracial crime? That wouldn't be pushing them around would it?

If there's some show on TV Land that flies the flag of systemic white oppression and that flag is embraced by someone who then goes into a church and kills white people because they are white, feel free to contact TV Land about it. Ok?

[mtl1]

Originally Posted by helenejen

I did not engage in anti-white talk. But it might have sounded that way to someone who prances around in a white sheet and hood.



You are fooling no one, except maybe the OP. You don't find it offensive. You are proud of the comparison.



Sorry but I'm allowed to have an opinion. Or are you against free speech too? And obviously the States are deciding it even now, aren't they.



If there's some show on TV Land that flies the flag of systemic white oppression and that flag is embraced by someone who then goes into a church and kills white people because they are white, feel free to contact TV Land about it. Ok?

More strawman and anti-white bigotry.

[Spikett]

Originally Posted by helenejen

And yet you obviously do not, because when posters start engaging in white power talk you not only do not condemn it you excuse it.



Wrong. I brought up the KKK when there was clear white power talk going on. You excused it. Own it.

And you fail to see that I have no problem with people flying the confederate flag. Go



Sorry but your opening post was clearly set up as a narrative of victimization from the get-go:



See how you cast yourself as without agency? Be mad all you want. It beats being a victim. But my god. The Dukes of Hazzard being canceled on a channel no one watches is one of the ways you are being pushed around? Please.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Or are you just very young and naive? You have missed the entire point. It's not about the Dukes of Hazzard (I'm repeating myself but you evidently missed it the first time). The point is that the entire tragedy has been co-opted by anti-Southern anything and the focus hasn't been on the victims for a long time. Roof, the actual culprit, has also been lost in the insanity. While we should be coming together for the victims, instead the focus in on the General Lee and NASCAR. Get it? You can read victimhood into my post all you want - heck, you've misread everything else I said. You have done essentially the exact thing I was complaining about but I'm sure you don't know it. You know that prejudice means to pre-judge, right? Well, that's what you've done in every post in this thread. You've made a lot of wrong assumptions and targeted me with the anger you should be saving for Roof and others of his ilk. You've demonstrated an amazing double standard and avoided even the appearance of intellectual discussion. And by doing so you are the one who sounds like someone with a victim mentality. The truly hysterical part is that I actually am something of an expert on racism in the US. You see, I've been actively involved in the anti-racist movement once upon a time. So, hey, the joke is on you. Too bad you can't see past your own anger and hatred. Be careful, or you'll become exactly the kind of person you hate.

[helenejen]

Originally Posted by Spikett

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Or are you just very young and naive? You have missed the entire point. It's not about the Dukes of Hazzard (I'm repeating myself but you evidently missed it the first time). The point is that the entire tragedy has been co-opted by anti-Southern anything and the focus hasn't been on the victims for a long time. Roof, the actual culprit, has also been lost in the insanity. While we should be coming together for the victims, instead the focus in on the General Lee and NASCAR. Get it? You can read victimhood into my post all you want - heck, you've misread everything else I said. You have done essentially the exact thing I was complaining about but I'm sure you don't know it. You know that prejudice means to pre-judge, right? Well, that's what you've done in every post in this thread. You've made a lot of wrong assumptions and targeted me with the anger you should be saving for Roof and others of his ilk.

We're not talking about Roof in this thread. You chose to make it about this: "I've Reached My PC Limit." And now you complain about it when people respond to what YOU wrote. More people victimizing you. Boo-hoo. You choose to give your attention to those who have made this about "anti-Southern anything" and that's why you feel bad. Not everyone has made this about anti-South. But you are unwilling to acknowledge that. You've made the death of those 9 people about you and your hurt feelings because you don't feel that the South is being appreciated in the way that it should be. It's weird frankly. Get perspective, as you are essentially advising others to do.

Originally Posted by Spikett

You've demonstrated an amazing double standard and avoided even the appearance of intellectual discussion.

Is that what you were engaging in when you disciplined a poster who wrote "too" when it should have been "to"?

Originally Posted by Spikett

And by doing so you are the one who sounds like someone with a victim mentality. The truly hysterical part is that I actually am something of an expert on racism in the US.

With your history degree?

Originally Posted by Spikett

You see, I've been actively involved in the anti-racist movement once upon a time.

Oh no, not your history degree. Your participation in "the anti-racist movement once upon a time." Well, you've come a long way since then, baby.

Originally Posted by Spikett

So, hey, the joke is on you. Too bad you can't see past your own anger and hatred. Be careful, or you'll become exactly the kind of person you hate.

Is this another example of your engagement in "intellectual discussion"?

[StreetLegal]

Originally Posted by Spikett

It's easy to simply write off those who fought for the Confederacy as racist traitors, but it's also incorrect. Doing so demonstrates a shallow disregard of the complexities of history and the people who lived it. Most southerners didn't even own slaves - as has been mentioned. They fought against an invading army. Some years ago there was a TV miniseries on the subject - I can't remember if it was "The Blue and the Gray" or "North and South" - but there is a great scene that I think sums it all up. Two young soldiers, one US and one CSA, find themselves face to face away from the fighting. The Union fellow asks, "What's it like to own slaves?". The Southern boy, incredulous, replies "Slaves! We're lucky to own shoes!". The Union fellow, shocked, asks "Then why are you fighting?", to which the CSA fellow replies "We're fighting because you're down here." That's pretty much it in a nutshell for the average CSA soldier.

You are a student of U.S. History and you are going to use a TV mini-series to argue a historical point? Regardless, one can agree that, yes, many southern whites were simply pawns in the game being directed by the slave owning class. Yet, it is still reasonable to say those southern whites fought on the wrong side of history and any official government display of the confederate flag is an insult to good taste and common decency.

Let's be clear that the South sought to destroy the United States, not only through war but just in the act of secession. The South started and lost a war that nearly destroyed the United States. The cause was unjust, the economic justification unseemly. The actions were treasonous. There is no moral high ground here...the south sought to preserve slavery, a wicked evil institution. This is not paint all northerners as saints but the facts on the ground tell us the war ended slavery.

Southerners who claim a deep national pride celebrate their ancestors' efforts to dissolve the very union of states whose flag they now so proudly fly. They honor a campaign to destroy the U.S.A. through dissolution but claim the mantle of patriot? A southern loyalist cannot be a patriot; the two ideals are mutually incompatible. You cannot simultaneously love the United States and love the idea of seceding from the United States. To claim both is equivalent of declaring that you love all Mexican food but hate enchiladas. The claims are each exclusive of the other and therefore by definition both cannot be true

As for the Confederate flag. What exactly about the war's history would lead one to fly a Confederate flag over a state capitol building? Does the flag indicate pride about the effort to protect slavery? Or attempting to secede from the Union? For starting a war in which two percent of the U.S. population died? For losing the war? These are odd banners to carry around for nearly 150 years. Perhaps the pride comes from the fact that the South stood up to a greater power. But even that does not pass the smell test. Even Lynyrd Skynyrd stopped flying the confederate flag at concerts back in 2012 or so.

Originally Posted by Spikett

The difference between a revolution and a rebellion is victory. Remember that the Founding Fathers were also traitors - to England. And they wrote slavery into the Constitution because they owned slaves.

Wow, please tell us you are kidding here? The American Revolution fought for independence from a King. Yes, the founding fathers were flawed men (as all humans are) but they lit a candle in the darkness of the late 1700's with the Constitution which to their genius could be AMENDED as it was after the bloody mess of the Civil War. The south went to war to preserve slavery....

[LexusNexus]

Originally Posted by Spikett

Since the Charleston shooting I’ve found myself being pushed more and more to the right. It’s odd for me because I’ve always been a moderate (even liberal on some issues). But I’m a 57 year old Southern Woman who is proud of my heritage. Because of that I’ve been labeled a racist, a traitor and a Nazi (by implication) by folks on the internet who don’t anything about me but what I’ve just mentioned. And suddenly I see it – the hatred of many (not going to generalize and say “all”) on the left for anything they disagree with and/or don’t understand. People who lash out and name call based on a knee-jerk reactions and little real knowledge either of the people they are attacking or the history they seem to think they are experts on. Indeed, these people have managed to turn not only today’s Southerners, but all, into one-dimensional racist buffoons. History is a lot more complicated than that because it’s made by real people – who are complicated.

I have a degree in history and I’ve studied US history from Colonial times through Vietnam. The history of slavery goes back hundreds of years. The sectional differences of the US states began before the ink was dry on the Constitution. It can’t be boiled down to a soundbite. And calling people names only demonstrates a lack of any but the most superficial knowledge of the history of the US, but also a rabid refusal to do more than cast stones from some kind of self righteous Neverland. From the flag, to the monuments, to the Dukes of Hazzard – it’s just too much. And it has caused more division than the shooting that started this ever could have. People came together after that in support and shock. Then it dwindled into attacks on heritage and charges of racism – toward people who not only didn’t support Roof, but were outraged at his actions. It has succeeded not only in division, but in the alienation of people like myself who find they have had all the insults and misjudgment they can take.

If this is all it takes to move you to the right, at your age, then you never were "moderate" or "left" on some issues to begin with.

This country has a serious problem, which is perpetuated by the primary culture in your neck of the woods. If you can't join in the outrage against this supreme ignorance that has existed for centuries, shame on you.

[SimplySagacious]

Libs, especially white libs, are mad that they haven't succeeded in stirring up southern blacks into rioting frenzies like they do in northern, midwestern and western cities.

If blacks found the flag (that has flown for decades) to represent what white libs claim today, they (blacks) had the numbers to force it down. The southern black population is large. White libs: Why would blacks voluntarily live in racist states? Do you have that little faith in their intellectual abilities?