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Old 12-02-2015, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,862,452 times
Reputation: 20675

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Democrats can't get any fixes passed with Republicans in control of Congress.

And no major bill in history has been perfectly written from day 0. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc. all had implementation issues that were later fixed legislatively. The only thing unique about ACA is that half of Congress is unwilling to allow improvements.

Also note that while disapproval of the ACA is high, polls also show that 55% or so of Americans are opposed to repealing it.

No two countries do Universal Healthcare the same.

Germany's Universal Healthcare System is the oldest at 131 years. They tweak it every year and reform it periodically.

Teddy Roosevelt campaigned on the promise to create a Universal Healthcare System based on the German model. He got distracted. If he and Congress had achieved that goal, healthcare in the US would be very different than it is today. The American Hospital Association, Big Pharma , Big Insurance and medical devise manufacturers would not have had the powerful lobbies they do, today. The US would have likely had more public than private hospitals.

More recently, Bush 2 campaigned on the promise to reduce the cost of healthcare for low income earners. He got distracted. Instead, premiums increased 100% between 2000-2010, with the largest increases in the first half of the decade.

The ACA likely helped as many as it hurt and not all of those helped are getting subsidies.
Many who perceive to have been hurt decline to compare apples to apples as it relates to benefits.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:39 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,791,096 times
Reputation: 14747
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveToRow View Post
You libs are so funny.

Democrats passed this monstrosity and the left wingers demand that Republicans fix it.
Nonsense. The "left-wingers" do not want Republicans to fix it; they want Republicans to stop obstructing the process. The law wasn't all that great in the first place -- but you can't ignore that Republicans

#1 - have pulled out all the stops at local/state/federal levels to ensure the legislation does not succeed, at the expense of the American people.

#2 - have no better alternative plans
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
3,826 posts, read 3,396,396 times
Reputation: 3694
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
No two countries do Universal Healthcare the same.

Germany's Universal Healthcare System is the oldest at 131 years. They tweak it every year and reform it periodically.

Teddy Roosevelt campaigned on the promise to create a Universal Healthcare System based on the German model. He got distracted. If he and Congress had achieved that goal, healthcare in the US would be very different than it is today. The American Hospital Association, Big Pharma , Big Insurance and medical devise manufacturers would not have had the powerful lobbies they do, today. The US would have likely had more public than private hospitals.

More recently, Bush 2 campaigned on the promise to reduce the cost of healthcare for low income earners. He got distracted. Instead, premiums increased 100% between 2000-2010, with the largest increases in the first half of the decade.

The ACA likely helped as many as it hurt and not all of those helped are getting subsidies.
Many who perceive to have been hurt decline to compare apples to apples as it relates to benefits.

If you are healthy and previously paid $200/month with $500 deductible and now pay $800/month with a $6000 deductible, you are being hurt. That is $600/month being flushed down the toilet that should be going into your 401K.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:47 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,791,096 times
Reputation: 14747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Right because when you ramrod something through with a "mandate" in control of the house, presidency and senate..... and then the winds change the people that were frozen out the first time around should gladly join in....or it's their fault for not being team players?
Democrats are at fault for writing an incoherent law.

Republicans are at fault for not being "team players." They act like their "team" is the Republican Party, and that the "opposing team" is the Democratic Party.

In reality there is only one team they should be worried about, the American people.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,446 posts, read 4,770,548 times
Reputation: 15354
Why do the republicans have to come up with something to replace it with? Things on the healthcare front were bad before Obamacare, but not as bad as they are now. In fact many if not most were better off before it was passed. Repeal it, go back to the way things were....that's step 1, the "stop the bleeding" step. We can then discuss improvements from that baseline instead of the current Obamacare baseline. To say we must simply bleed out until we find a cure is counterproductive.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:48 AM
 
27,239 posts, read 15,405,249 times
Reputation: 12116
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveToRow View Post
You libs are so funny.

Democrats passed this monstrosity and the left wingers demand that Republicans fix it.

What reforms have your overlords in the Democrats proposed to address the obvious and many problems of the law THEY PASSED. Hint: none.


Most major programs put in place by Dems have had to be fixed and shut up since their inception.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Behind enemy lines
709 posts, read 658,058 times
Reputation: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Nonsense. The "left-wingers" do not want Republicans to fix it; they want Republicans to stop obstructing the process. The law wasn't all that great in the first place -- but you can't ignore that Republicans

#1 - have pulled out all the stops at local/state/federal levels to ensure the legislation does not succeed, at the expense of the American people.

#2 - have no better alternative plans
Riiiiigggghhhhtttt.

Obama himself has delayed and changed the law (contrary to the principles of our constitutional republic, but that's neither here nor there) far more than anything Republicans have done.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:50 AM
 
27,239 posts, read 15,405,249 times
Reputation: 12116
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Democrats can't get any fixes passed with Republicans in control of Congress.

And no major bill in history has been perfectly written from day 0. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc. all had implementation issues that were later fixed legislatively. The only thing unique about ACA is that half of Congress is unwilling to allow improvements.

Also note that while disapproval of the ACA is high, polls also show that 55% or so of Americans are opposed to repealing it.


Are you now bemoaning the fact that the Democrats are no longer in a position to ram things down our throat as this was?
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,446 posts, read 4,770,548 times
Reputation: 15354
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Democrats are at fault for writing an incoherent law.

Republicans are at fault for not being "team players", because the "Team" they are supposed to be supporting is the American people. Currently they act like their "team" is the Republican Party, and that the "enemy" is the Democratic Party.

The classic "accuse others of what you do" tactic. The left and the Obama administration have been treating not only republicans but people who support them as enemy #1 since the moment he got in to office. Just recently in the wake of the Paris attack Obama focused his rhetoric on how evil the republicans were for not supporting his policies instead of how evil the perpetrators of the act itself were. And this was when he was overseas. Even when it comes to foreign policy the only enemy he can see is his domestic opposition.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:53 AM
 
34,289 posts, read 19,430,984 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
Why do the republicans have to come up with something to replace it with? Things on the healthcare front were bad before Obamacare, but not as bad as they are now. In fact many if not most were better off before it was passed. Repeal it, go back to the way things were....that's step 1, the "stop the bleeding" step. We can then discuss improvements from that baseline instead of the current Obamacare baseline. To say we must simply bleed out until we find a cure is counterproductive.
Sheesh.

Healthcare costs by year for a family of 4.
2002 9,235.
2012 20,728
2015 24,671

Sorry but no, the cost increases were about the same. One difference? from 2002 to 2012 we saw more and more people lose insurance, or be denied insurance when they needed it. Your argument is incorrect.

Do we need something better? Yes, but better wasnt what we had before.
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