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View Poll Results: Will there be a single-payer system in the USA within the next 20 years?
No absolutely not! 27 32.53%
Yes, it's going to happen! 44 53.01%
Don't know. 10 12.05%
Don't care. 2 2.41%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2016, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,334,415 times
Reputation: 15291

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
That's great, if you can afford to pay the ever skyrocketing premiums.
Your coverage for pre-existing conditions won't mean much if you can't afford to pay for it.
You have no way of knowing, of course, and I don't mean to get up in your grill. But frankly, I would have paid every cent I had to to address the medical issues in my family. We were thankful for the waiver of pre-existing coverage we were able to obtain in our state's high-risk pool, though at jaw-dropping cost. Then when the ACA came along, with better coverage, lower deductible, and a lower premium, we were overjoyed. I have a suspicion you would be, too, in a similar circumstance.

As I mentioned above, my family has come through our medical issues satisfactorily, though it has been financially very difficult, as you noted. The point to me is that there ought to be a way for everyone to have access to the care they need without bankrupting them or turning them into lifelong debtors.

The existing system is a ticking time-bomb, financially. We cannot continue with spiralling costs snd premium increases. We have got to get rid of the insurance industry's interference as it stands between sick people and caregivers. What does insurance have to do with medicine, anyway? Getting cancer is not an accident. Alzheimers is not an accident. These are just two of the many infirmities that strike people as part of their life's journey.

We need to focus on the need to provide healthcare for all Americans at a cost they can afford. It won't be easy to accomplish this. Neither was going to the moon, building the interstate highway system, defeatng Hitler, or any of the other obstacles our country has overcome.
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
9,437 posts, read 7,370,953 times
Reputation: 7979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Ah, but the government will have to power to say "This is how much you can charge for x, y, and z. Now deal with it." That's the way it's done in nearly every other country in the world.

Example: I recently spent three years in Japan. Their hospitals are given a list each year by the government which specifies the cost of every medication, procedure, and allied expense. Their hospitals have learned to function within these reasonable constraints. So can ours.
And what on Earth would give you any confidence that the US government would do that? Absolutely nothing in their history shows government involvement making anything cheaper.
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,334,415 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
And what on Earth would give you any confidence that the US government would do that? Absolutely nothing in their history shows government involvement making anything cheaper.
Maybe availability is more important than cost. That's the way we think about things like stealth bombers. Why not people's health?
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:34 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,952,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
And what on Earth would give you any confidence that the US government would do that? Absolutely nothing in their history shows government involvement making anything cheaper.
The US is famous for having the world's most expensive healthcare.
ie: Americans pay at least twice as much than Canadians who have single payer.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,748,172 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You just now figured that out?

I've been saying for 9 years now, you have to solve the underlying problem.

The healthcare system in the US is a broken system, created by your own government's policies, so rescinding or repealing those policies is critical to fixing the system.

The first step is for each State to repeal its anti-Trust legislation, and to simultaneously start attacking hospitals for price-gouging.
As you know, the American Hospital Association and its state affiliates, lobby federal and state legislators to protect their best interests. On a federal level lobbying expenditures are in the $20 million range.

And then there's the lobbying efforts of the state healthcare insurers and associated national umbrella groups.

Back in 1994 the BCBS ( Siamese twin of the AHA eventually separated) umbrella corporation began to allow licensees to be for - profit corporations and the affiliated licensees exceeded expectations.

Fast forward to 2010 when the ACA became law. This law limited the profits of healthcare insurers. Insurers of individual and small group plans were required to spend at least 80% of premiums on claims with the remaining 20% to cover admin and profit. Large group plan insurers are required to spend at least 85% of premiums on claims with the remaining 15% covering admin and profit.

Beginning in 2011, insurers were required to rebate $1.1 billion to 12.7 plan holders.

Insurers who sold junk plans in the majority of states that allowed such plans to be sold to consumers who perceived all insurance alike were suddenly forced out of business because those plans did not meet the minimum basic requirements of the ACA. Oh boo- hoo.

Every year healthcare insurers attempt to justify lavish hikes in premiums which tends to get a lot of sensational media coverage. Reality is that overall premiums have declined. Individual experiences can and do vary.

There are no federal laws that preclude selling insurance across state lines. As you say it's a state thing.

What gets lost in the wash is that each state has its own governor appointed insurance commission which recommends what the state should and should not insure and regulation of insurers. These are the state appointed government bodies that previously allowed insurers to discriminate against pre- existing conditions in most states. These are the state appointed bodies that decide which medications the state requires to be included/ excluded in healthcare plans. These are the the state appointed bodies that divide their own states into regions based on the healthcare competition or lack thereof in a region. Those that live in highly competitive regions pay lower premiums than those in less competitive markets. Premiums can and do vary by $ hundreds each month within a state for the same healthcare plan.

In other words, these state appointed bodies don't normalize premiums within state. There is no realistic way for consumers to evaluate healthcare plans sold across state lines unless there is a common, likely federal baseline and even then........

No worries. The front running candidate for 2016 promises to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something wonderful that will take care of everyone and the government will pay for it.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:16 AM
 
2,962 posts, read 5,000,742 times
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Just as soon as it becomes a republican plan. After all the ACA is modeled after past republican proposals...

The irony of Republican disapproval of Obamacare - CSMonitor.com
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:19 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,737,789 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
It's things like that which make the single-payer system a terrible idea right now.
If those things are already happening, and we don't have socialized medicine, how can socialized medicine be the cause of the problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
The Affordable Care Act -- which was a pretty obvious stepping stone towards single-payer -- did absolutely nothing to remedy these things.
Which, again, is not a problem with single-payer or socialized healthcare.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:22 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,737,789 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
Why didn't the Democrats create a single payer system instead of Obamacare?
GOOD question. I blame it on the Democratic Party selling out to Hospitals, pharm companies, etc.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:30 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,281,720 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
Why didn't the Democrats create a single payer system instead of Obamacare?
They weren't able to get the votes. At the time the remaining Blue Dog Democrats refused to support a single payer model.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:32 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,281,720 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Single Payer: It's a topic that I'm torn on. On the one hand, it'd surely be nice to just go to the doctor or dentist or optometrist, get done what needs done and not be confronted with a giant medical bill.

But we can't afford it!

It's things like that which make the single-payer system a terrible idea right now.

Take a look at this: 10 Wildly Overinflated Hospital Costs


Because hospitals are doing that sort of thing -- all because "the insurance company or the government will pay for it, so who cares?" -- they make single-payer impossible. And when the most expensive RX's range in cost between $80,300 and $29,800 per month, we can't afford to do a single-payer. (And I thought paying $400 a month out of pocket for Invokana was outrageous!) This was Obama's big blunder. Before doing anything like the ACA, you need to address these problems.

We can't afford single-payer for many reasons, but the single biggest one: Healthcare costs are artificially inflated to such ridiculous levels that we just can't afford it.
Insurance companies don't pay for all of it. They only pay a portion and make the hospital or insured liable for the rest. Part of the issue is that U.S. drugs are astronomically expensive and we still have a large portion of uninsured people that simply go to the Hospital and don't pay.
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