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View Poll Results: Will there be a single-payer system in the USA within the next 20 years?
No absolutely not! 27 32.53%
Yes, it's going to happen! 44 53.01%
Don't know. 10 12.05%
Don't care. 2 2.41%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2016, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,742,135 times
Reputation: 6594

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Single Payer: It's a topic that I'm torn on. On the one hand, it'd surely be nice to just go to the doctor or dentist or optometrist, get done what needs done and not be confronted with a giant medical bill.

But we can't afford it!

It's things like that which make the single-payer system a terrible idea right now.

Take a look at this: 10 Wildly Overinflated Hospital Costs
Quote:
  1. Tylenol - Charge to patient: $15 per individual pill, for a total of $345 during average patient stay
  2. Patient belonging bag - Like a grocery bag, to hold your personal items. Charge to patient: $8
  3. Box of tissues - Sometimes listed as “mucus recovery system." Charge to patient: $8.
  4. Gloves - Charge to patient: $53 per non-sterile pair (sterile are higher), for a total of $5,141 during average patient stay
  5. Cup medicine - Cost is for the plastic cup used to administer medicine, not the actual medicine inside it. Charge to patient, per cup: $10, for a total of $440 during average patient stay
  6. Marking pen - To mark the body for surgery. Charge to patient: $17.50
  7. Cuff, BP Adult - Use of blood pressure cuff. Charge to patient: $20
  8. Oral admin. fee - Charge for nurse to hand you medicine taken by mouth. Charge to patient: $6.25 per instance, for a total of $87.50 during average patient stay
  9. Headlight - Cost of use of overhead light in operating room. Charge to patient: $93.50
  10. Swabs, alcohol - Charge to patient: $23 per swab, for a total of $322 during average patient stay
Because hospitals are doing that sort of thing -- all because "the insurance company or the government will pay for it, so who cares?" -- they make single-payer impossible. And when the most expensive RX's range in cost between $80,300 and $29,800 per month, we can't afford to do a single-payer. (And I thought paying $400 a month out of pocket for Invokana was outrageous!) This was Obama's big blunder. Before doing anything like the ACA, you need to address these problems.

We can't afford single-payer for many reasons, but the single biggest one: Healthcare costs are artificially inflated to such ridiculous levels that we just can't afford it.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:36 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,957,263 times
Reputation: 2938
Under single-payer costs are tightly regulated and controlled else it would not be possible.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,183,035 times
Reputation: 21743
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
We can't afford single-payer for many reasons, but the single biggest one: Healthcare costs are artificially inflated to such ridiculous levels that we just can't afford it.
You just now figured that out?

I've been saying for 9 years now, you have to solve the underlying problem.

The healthcare system in the US is a broken system, created by your own government's policies, so rescinding or repealing those policies is critical to fixing the system.

The first step is for each State to repeal its anti-Trust legislation, and to simultaneously start attacking hospitals for price-gouging.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,742,135 times
Reputation: 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
Under single-payer costs are tightly regulated and controlled else it would not be possible.
The Affordable Care Act -- which was a pretty obvious stepping stone towards single-payer -- did absolutely nothing to remedy these things. Maybe that's the way the do it in Europe or Canada, but neither party seems to have any interest in actually tackling healthcare price gouging.

I'll have to give Bernie Sanders credit for being an exception. Nobody else brings it up though. One of the biggest reasons: Ambulance chasers are one of the top donors to Democrats. Those poor lawyers need a big piggy bank to raid for their clients. And healthcare special interests donate massive dollars to both sides.

So forgive me if I don't believe that anyone will actually fix anything I've pointed out. They won't.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,345,087 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Single Payer: It's a topic that I'm torn on. On the one hand, it'd surely be nice to just go to the doctor or dentist or optometrist, get done what needs done and not be confronted with a giant medical bill.

But we can't afford it!

It's things like that which make the single-payer system a terrible idea right now.

Take a look at this: 10 Wildly Overinflated Hospital Costs


Because hospitals are doing that sort of thing -- all because "the insurance company or the government will pay for it, so who cares?" -- they make single-payer impossible. And when the most expensive RX's range in cost between $80,300 and $29,800 per month, we can't afford to do a single-payer. (And I thought paying $400 a month out of pocket for Invokana was outrageous!) This was Obama's big blunder. Before doing anything like the ACA, you need to address these problems.

We can't afford single-payer for many reasons, but the single biggest one: Healthcare costs are artificially inflated to such ridiculous levels that we just can't afford it.
Ah, but the government will have to power to say "This is how much you can charge for x, y, and z. Now deal with it." That's the way it's done in nearly every other country in the world.

Example: I recently spent three years in Japan. Their hospitals are given a list each year by the government which specifies the cost of every medication, procedure, and allied expense. Their hospitals have learned to function within these reasonable constraints. So can ours.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,742,135 times
Reputation: 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You just now figured that out?
LOL, no I've been saying it for years too. But since Obama and now Sanders are going all-in for single-payer, I'm pointing it out once again. Can you imagine what the federal debt will look like after just 10 years of single-payer??
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,742,135 times
Reputation: 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Ah, but the government will have to power to say "This is how much you can charge for x, y, and z. Now deal with it." That's the way it's done in nearly every other country in the world.

Example: I recently spent three years in Japan. Their hospitals are given a list each year by the government which specifies the cost of every medication, procedure, and allied expense. Their hospitals have learned to function within these reasonable constraints. So can ours.
Ambulance chasers sue for millions. Those millions gotta come from somewhere. And outa those millions, Democrats get their second largest campaign contribution windfall -- second only to unions.

The Democrats are generally the most interested in this sort of thing, but they won't sacrifice all that campaign money by actually doing something. I fully expect them to offer lip service and nothing else.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,345,087 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
LOL, no I've been saying it for years too. But since Obama and now Sanders are going all-in for single-payer, I'm pointing it out once again. Can you imagine what the federal debt will look like after just 10 years of single-payer??
Can you imagine how many people will be bankrupt in ten years without it?
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:51 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,957,263 times
Reputation: 2938
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
The Affordable Care Act -- which was a pretty obvious stepping stone towards single-payer -- did absolutely nothing to remedy these things. Maybe that's the way the do it in Europe or Canada, but neither party seems to have any interest in actually tackling healthcare price gouging.

I'll have to give Bernie Sanders credit for being an exception. Nobody else brings it up though. One of the biggest reasons: Ambulance chasers are one of the top donors to Democrats. Those poor lawyers need a big piggy bank to raid for their clients. And healthcare special interests donate massive dollars to both sides.

So forgive me if I don't believe that anyone will actually fix anything I've pointed out. They won't.


There is nothing in the ACA or Obamacare that gets us remotely close to single-payer.
Obamacare forces everyone to pay into the middle-man known as for-profit private insurance, which raises costs greatly because they are in business to maximize profit at your expense. OTOH single-payer eliminates the private insurance middle-man altogether. Single-payer would simply be an expansion of Medicare that is accessible to everyone.

In many ways Obamacare is worse than what we had before.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:56 PM
 
Location: United States
12,391 posts, read 7,104,914 times
Reputation: 6135
Why didn't the Democrats create a single payer system instead of Obamacare?
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