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China was vastly more isolated than Cuba is today. The entire rule of Mao Zedong racked up about 80 million civilian deaths -- because Mao's hairbrained Communist programs failed so miserably. Did killing off 40+ million Chinese civilians in the Great Leap Forward convince Mao to stop trying to impose Communism and controlling the lives of everyone in China? No, not really. Our isolationist stance against the PRC was nuts! The entire world (other than the USSR) refused to recognize them as the true government of China for a very long time, mostly because they were following the USA's lead. The Republic of China (Taiwan) held their seat in the UN until 1971. The USA didn't completely recognize them until 1979. There are a dozen or so nations who still don't recognize the PRC.
We had an ugly, bloody, indirect war with China when they invaded and attacked our forces in the Korean War. Cuba is no angel of course, but they've also never actually attacked us. We've never fought a war with Cuba. The only reason that China didn't threaten us with nuclear missiles was because they didn't have them. They were 20-30 years behind the USA and USSR in their development of a nuclear arsenal and could not have conceivably launched a nuclear strike until after Nixon reached out to them.
Isolationist regimes thrive in "us vs them" scenarios. This was never more true than it has been for Communist regimes. We've been dutifully providing that scenario for the Castro brothers for many decades now. What I think Cuba needs is to have "them" taken out of "us vs them." That would make a huge difference.
Giving back Guantanamo Bay back could be used as a symbolic peace offering. I've no clue why the hell we need that base anyways. It's the perfect starter for convincing Cuba that we don't want to be enemies anymore. You could also use it as a negotiating piece for getting Cuba to be more open to the outside world.
I think we were successful with the USSR and PRC by accident. We didn't know that trade and normalized relations would change things. It did. The biggest catalyst for change was greater interaction and free-flowing information. Cuba has everything to gain and nothing to lose. Besides, if normalizing relations and trade with Cuba do not work out to our liking, we can always go back to where we are now.
Point well taken about China and the Korean War.
As I said earlier, I'm not denying that isolating Cuba has accomplished nothing, or that more contact with our free society may someday rub off on the Cuban government (tho I still wonder why contact with Europe hasn't accomplished the same). I also agree that we served as a straw man for the Castros for many years.
I'd be very happy to hear that Obama is using Guantanamo as a negotiating piece in exchange for opening the country to more trade and granting civil liberties. To my thinking, that kind of pressure/negotiation would justify our Administration's move. It remains to be seen whether that is going to happen, or if Obama will be content with what has happened so far and not push further for fear of being rebuffed and damaging his legacy. There's another thread going on right now in CD about Castro telling Obama that the Island will remain communist -- don't know if its true and haven't read the thread, just noticed the title.
Absent further effort by the US applied to the Castros, however, normalizing relations will not improve the life of the common Cuban citizen. I've been posting in this thread and other similar ones over the last few months because I have become uncomfortable with Americans patting themselves on the back over this, as if we've accomplished anything for anybody so far except Obama, Castro, Hilton Hotels, and Norwegian Cruise Lines (or similar).
And yes, if things don't work out we can go back to where we are now. We will just have to be ready to eat crow.
Obama making life easier for the average Cuban giving them greater access to U.S. financial institutions and relaxing travel limits. Now Cubans can open U.S. bank accounts and people can visit Cuba for "people to people" educational travel.
Five years from now with relations back to normal, everyone will wonder why it took so long?
And if you think he's not also meeting with cop-killer fugitive Joanne Chesimard (whose return to the U.S. he didn't bother to demand in that one-sided agreement), I have a bridge to sell you.
Wait. I just bet he's going to issue that dame a pardon.
And if you think he's not also meeting with cop-killer fugitive Joanne Chesimard (whose return to the U.S. he didn't bother to demand in that one-sided agreement), I have a bridge to sell you.
Wait. I just bet he's going to issue that dame a pardon.
Watch this:
Are you ready to turn over Cuban criminals wanted by Cuba in exchange for Chesimard? Like the terrorist Luis Posada Carriles?
It's the Family Spring Break Vacation ..... to go and pay Homage to the Communist Dictator that in 90 miles off the coast of the United States. The same Communist Dictator that is sheltering 20 escaped Criminals from the USA.
It's a day of infamy for our Nation and a day of Celebration for the Leftists.
I honestly never thought I would see such an act by a President of the United States.
It's the Family Spring Break Vacation ..... to go and pay Homage to the Communist Dictator that in 90 miles off the coast of the United States. The same Communist Dictator that is sheltering 20 escaped Criminals from the USA.
It's a day of infamy for our Nation and a day of Celebration for the Leftists.
I honestly never thought I would see such an act by a President of the United States.
obama runs this country like a joke. I am counting down the days that he is gone for good. Its been a long 8 years of torture. All his policies are a failure.
It's the Family Spring Break Vacation ..... to go and pay Homage to the Communist Dictator that in 90 miles off the coast of the United States. The same Communist Dictator that is sheltering 20 escaped Criminals from the USA.
It's a day of infamy for our Nation and a day of Celebration for the Leftists.
I honestly never thought I would see such an act by a President of the United States.
President Trump will be sure to shut this down pronto. Until Castro is gone and there are free elections, they should not see one tourist dollar. I wonder if Barack gets to see how real dictator's deal with protesters?
It's the Family Spring Break Vacation ..... to go and pay Homage to the Communist Dictator that in 90 miles off the coast of the United States. The same Communist Dictator that is sheltering 20 escaped Criminals from the USA.
It's a day of infamy for our Nation and a day of Celebration for the Leftists.
I honestly never thought I would see such an act by a President of the United States.
Maybe you are exaggerating just a bit, he is establishing relations with Cuba after 50 years. There is very little downside, they were never a threat to the US, neither was Nicaragua or Venezuela but that hasn't stopped us from the communist/socialist witch hunt for the last several decades. This is a positive step forward not a day of infamy.
Maybe you are exaggerating just a bit, he is establishing relations with Cuba after 50 years. There is very little downside, they were never a threat to the US, neither was Nicaragua or Venezuela but that hasn't stopped us from the communist/socialist witch hunt for the last several decades. This is a positive step forward not a day of infamy.
Well, they were a threat many years ago. Any dictator allowing a powerful communist dictator place ICBMs in their country 90 miles from us, was a big threat.
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