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Old 02-24-2016, 11:10 AM
 
24 posts, read 10,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
I know right. I was at the doctor the other day because my fibromyalgia was acting up and I could not eat enough to recuperate myself due to my gluten allergy. I had to wait to be seen because this kid at the doctor's office came in and started complaining about his "Type 1 diabetes" and blah blah blah. They saw him before me? Can you believe it?
Well, maybe if you would have listed your restless leg syndrome...you'd have gotten somewhere.
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Old 02-24-2016, 03:02 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,013,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Still, it is, isn't it? At its most basic level? They've tried socializing men who've had their penis' mutilated as children as women, it doesn't work. Because they always feel like men. Even after they've been castrated, and never told that they're boys. They never truly believe they are women.

People seem to know who they truly are, even when all physical and environmental evidence seems to point otherwise.
That's a whole other ball game. Those guys were men from birth, male chromosomes, and despite missing the most important anatomy; the male genitalia. The "feeling" is tied to their biological makeup as a man. Socializing them as women was unnatural for them.

There is no male or female essence. At least not anything immaterial that is not tied to biology. Transgender theory starts to make less sense as its premises start to get analyzed and the science behind it gets scrutinized.
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Old 02-24-2016, 03:37 PM
 
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We socialize boys with male gender norms and girls with female gender norms..

But why?

I attribute it to the observation, over thousands of generations, of the distinct and perceptible differences, both psycho and physiological, between men and women.

There is logic behind it.
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Old 02-24-2016, 03:39 PM
 
7,982 posts, read 4,288,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
I'm pretty sure there are transgender women who don't wear dresses, have long hair, or play with dolls either. But they still feel like women. Most likely, because of biology. Biology that we don't understand yet. We don't know everything there is to know about sexual development.

But you are correct, they have not been socialized as women. So they do what they think women do, because that's what they see women do. If you are transgender in a culture where women don't wear dresses or have long hair, you're probably going to adapt to the social norms of women in the culture you're in.

And listen, I get what you're saying, it sounds logical. But the medical community does not, as a whole, agree with you. You just can't state categorically that it's a psychological disorder, as a fact. Because that would mean you know more than others who are trained and studied in the field. And more than anybody really, because no one knows for sure why it happens.

I know you don't have any malintent and are a kind compassionate person. I just disagree with you on this one.

You and I agree about many other things (and about many other posters here ), so I can accept that we disagree about this topic.

What you say here is completely logical. Also, I don't disagree that there are lots of things we don't know.

Thanks friend!
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Old 02-24-2016, 03:49 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,013,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watupd00d View Post
We socialize boys with male gender norms and girls with female gender norms..

But why?

I attribute it to the observation, over thousands of generations, of the distinct and perceptible differences, both psycho and physiological, between men and women.

There is logic behind it.
What I'm trying to figure out is why transgender activists say that there is all the fluidity when it comes to gender and sexuality but then reinforce the binary when it comes to themselves?
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:17 PM
 
24 posts, read 10,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
What I'm trying to figure out is why transgender activists say that there is all the fluidity when it comes to gender and sexuality but then reinforce the binary when it comes to themselves?
Because, the answer is obvious....

They were the ONLY beings born and raised free of stimulus and influence, of course!
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,130 posts, read 3,075,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
What I'm trying to figure out is why transgender activists say that there is all the fluidity when it comes to gender and sexuality but then reinforce the binary when it comes to themselves?
Don't cisgender people also reinforce the gender binary when it comes to themselves? I'm not sure I understand your point.
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Old 02-24-2016, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,844 posts, read 2,847,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
You don't have to agree with what they are.

We are human. Nothing more, nothing less. What's to agree/disagree with?
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Old 02-24-2016, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,844 posts, read 2,847,151 times
Reputation: 4194
I'm going to post my story here. How I came to find myself. There is some stuff that my atheist brothers and sisters might not understand or agree with, as I am a progressive Christian. I mention this, because I want them to know that it isn't meant to offend, it's just part of my journey <3.

++++++

I knew at a very young age I should have been born with a female body. I could never put that into words, that concept at the time was not known to me. I was raised in a strict Christian environment, and having these thoughts were sinful, and the worst kind of wrong. At least that is what I heard in church. I internalized this sentiment, and it grew into a fierce hatred, most directed at myself. I prayed to God to make this go away. I prayed for that a lot. I couldn't be a girl, that was impossible, or so I thought. That hatred quickly over took me, and when I was ten I tried to kill myself for the first time, because I thought maybe I needed to do it myself, since God was not taking this away, or letting me die, I needed to do it on my own. So I tried to hang myself in my closet, but when I woke up later, the belt I used was hanging around my neck, and I was laying half in and half out of a box in my closet. I stayed there for most of my life, in that closet. Alone.

In my teens, I turned to booze and drugs. A lot of each. Nikki Six, a guitarist for Motley Crue overdosed a few times. At the height of my drug use, had he have known me, he would have told me to slow down and save some for him. It was that bad, but it kept me numb, which in turn kept me alive.

In my mid twenties, I think I was 24 or so I was at the end of my rope, again. I was tired of being strung out all the time, tired of trying so hard to "act like a man" and failing terribly, tired of dating other women trying to prove to myself that I could do it, essentially using them to try to "be a guy." They usually ended because I wouldn't have sex, the very idea of using that thing made me sick. So I was standing on an over pass one day, I was going to jump, the cars on the freeway below were going pretty fast, I figured it would be over pretty quick. I was finishing a cigarette when this uber preppy looking guy in this crappy red Nova pulled up. I mention these, because he looked so out of place in that car, it was kind of funny, like an 80 year old guy in a Corvette. His name is Bill. He's a great guy, I still consider him one of my best friends, even though we haven't spoken in years. We lost touch a long time ago, and I really have no idea how to find him. Anyway, he and his wife were driving on the freeway. He didn't even see me, but God knew I was there, and told Bill I was getting ready to jump, so Bill, and his wife Jayne (with that spelling, I'm telling you those two did not belong in that car haha) got off the freeway, and came to talk to me. I couldn't tell them why exactly I was going to jump, so I blamed it on the drugs, which was true, but not the whole truth. I wasn't ready to even admit it to myself. I knew that God wasn't going to let me kill myself, no matter what I tried to do, so that was my last attempt, I think. There were so many attempts really, it's hard to keep them straight chronologically, and the drugs kind of affected my memory, so that's kind of shot. I stayed with them for about a year or so, and got off drugs for awhile, but the pressure I was under was too much, so I relapsed.

I stayed doped to my eyeballs until I was 35 or 36, when I moved close to my Mom, she had uterine cancer, and I wanted to be close to her. She's doing really well now, we talk on the phone occasionally, but it's strained.When I was 38 I was tired of everything, life, trying to live up to everyone's expectations of me, and I begged God to take this from me or let me die. I knew that coming out would cause me to lose my family, which had been everything to me for as long as I could remember, I come from an incredibly tight knit family, we got together several times a year, we'd come from all over the country and gather at a state park, or Grandpa's house. I loved those reunions, and huge holiday dinners. Poker, football, food and beer, you know. I never got into drinking much, I hate hangovers, but most of my family members are drinkers. Socially, not alcoholics, you know. I didn't think I'd survive losing them. But something had to give.

I emailed a close friend, and came out to her, sort of to say good bye, I really wanted to die. I apologized for not being honest about who I really am inside, and for causing her pain. We were married about maybe 15 or 16 years before that. I may have been 24 or 25. It lasted a year. She's really the only person I've genuinely loved and trusted. Her name is Michelle. She wrote back about a week later, and told me that I was moving in with her and her family (Her husband, and boys), and she was going to help me come out and get through this. If I didn't come out, and live authentically, I didn't want to live at all. So I moved here, and got into therapy, and slowly started to come out.

I begged God for him to tell me his plan for me, and he's opened doors that I could never open on my own. Forgiving my Dad being one of those things. He was incredibly abusive when I was young. He used to beat me with a 2x4. I carried intense anger for him through most of my life, and one night I was on my bed smoking out my window (cigarettes...tobacco, not pot ), and I just started sobbing, uncontrollably. I had no idea why. I honestly felt like my heart was breaking. I was in a panic because I had no idea where it was all coming from, I realized later after I calmed down that it was 40 years of pain leaving me. It was just gone.

The hate and anger I carried with me through my life was gone, in that moment. It's as if God said I didn't need that anymore.

I came out to my Mom a few months later, she told the rest of the family, and they all agreed that they didn't want me home over holidays, they didn't want to see me. As much as that hurt, God led me through it. That footsteps poem comes to mind. He really did carry me through it. My friends also surrounded me and walked beside me too. Through that process, I slowly began to accept and respect myself, which turned into love. About maybe a year ago was the first time in my life I genuinely loved myself. Which in turn enabled me to love God more deeply, which of course deepened our relationship. He's guided me every step in the coming out and transitioning process. I know he is with me. When we talk, I feel him physically. I finally have the relationship with him, and Christ that I have always wanted. Growing up in the church, I had seen so many great people of faith, and I wanted what they had. I begged God for that, but until I was ready to be honest with myself, and live accordingly, my entire life would be a lie, and God can't move in a person's life, if they can't even be honest with themselves.

So that's where I am today, very much a woman, and very much a sold out Jesus Freak, and loving each new day that is given me. The pain of living in a male body isn't lessened, but I know God is moving me toward healing, and I can be patient, and know that my healing will be complete on his schedule, and he's handling it, it's all more than I can handle on my own, so I just let him take care of that. I saw my Mom last year, for the first time in three years. She came to see me. My family still doesn't want to see me, and I know it was hard on Mom to see me, but she did it anyway. So I know God is healing that too. But that's probably going to take awhile. It's ok though. I can wait. If I can at least talk to Mom on the phone every couple weeks or so, I can live with that.

++++++++++

What is this? What causes it? Why am I this way? Why do they have a white sale on Dr. King Day?

I don't know. I don't need to know. I just know that I'm a chick. I don't wear dresses, if you tried to put me in one, I have claws and I'll use them. I love my jeans and t-shirts and hoodies. I'm still a chick. I'm just Kristine. I don't "want" to be a woman. I just am. What is, is. I'm not "pretending" to be anything. I'm not disordered, or diseased or mentally ill. The first step toward HRT, and eventual surgery is intense therapy to rule out mental illness. I'm not sick. I'm just Kristine.
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Old 02-24-2016, 06:52 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,013,648 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
Don't cisgender people also reinforce the gender binary when it comes to themselves? I'm not sure I understand your point.
I'm saying they're the ones claiming to be progressive but sound regressive when it comes to sexuality. Sexuality is not a binary event: Kinsey taught us that more than 60 years ago. So now we recognize that sexual preference can range from exclusive heterosexuality to homosexuality through a series of intervening states. It's fluid. The same applies to gender identity: whether someone thinks they are male or female. It's fluid too. Many "cisgendered" people don't know their science, yet transgender activists get mixed up by reinforcing rather patriarchal stuff like brain sex science.
Point is, a mtf trans cannot really know what it's like to be a female without having born one and gone through the lived experiences, the lived reality of a person born a female. There is no immaterial female essence. I don't know how a man with male chromosomes, without femal anatomy, never lived one day as a woman can know they're a woman based on just a feeling. We only have their word on it, not science. Hormonal studies have been refuted and the brain sex science stuff has been questioned.
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