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When someone lays down the tools of their work and leaves their family to serve their country in the military with no guarantee that they will return home there should be a level of reverence and gratitude for their service. The guy peeling potatoes probably didn't volunteer to peel potatoes but that's what they need him to do so he does it, sometimes with his weapon within reach. They all deserve our gratitude and a little boost to catch up with time lost if that can happen once they are home.
How much is enough? We have a governmental apparatus that serves veterans -- it could be better, especially the medical care part. We should fix it and not be stingy about it. There are independent, employment, business or commercial benefits that are available to veterans...veterans preference in some hiring, for example.
I grew up with my dad and his cohort serving in WW-II and Korea. It was a common experience...you get drafted and serve just like everyone else. There didn't seem to be as many bumper stickers, license plates, MIA flags, window decals and other indicators proclaiming "I'm a veteran" as we see today. Maybe that comes with the all-volunteer military. The guys in WW-II and Korea didn't make their military service the defining thing in their life as it seems that some do today.
I would say an all volunteer force deserves more respect than one that served by compulsion. They willingly make the decision to put their lives on the line in service towards their country. Much like police and firemen, they place a value on service to society and to their fellow Americans. Unlike, say, someone who was drafted and serves to stay out of sub-standard federal housing.
If you were drafted, your reasons for serving don't really matter, but then again if you volunteer, your reasons for serving don't really matter either. Either way you look at it, different people will feel differently about why they want to serve, whether they want to serve...
In many ways we have a similar issue or question with police. We all prefer to believe they sign up to "serve and protect," but we also know for a fact there are those who want to be police for less noble reasons.
None of this makes much difference when it comes to determining compensation though.
I think the dynamics are considerably different, however, between those who serve because they are drafted vs those who volunteer, even though there are people who would enlist regardless.
The part of your comment that throws me most, either way, is this about someone who gets "drafted and serves to stay out of sub-standard federal housing." I guess the days of the draft are over for the time being in any case, but again..., if you are drafted, you pretty much serve because you are drafted, regardless whether you call home the projects or Manhattan...
You are asking a very interesting question and I will try my best to answer it. Of course this is just my opinion, and it is not right answer or wrong answer, it is just my answer.
One of the things against military benefits people often hear is that "well, they volunteered." The truth is that if your pay and housing allowance does not cut it for you and your family, you cannot give your employer (aka American government) your two weeks notice, you cannot just quit and go to a higher paying job.
Military occupations also do not transfer over to the civilian world very well—sure, if you were a welder or mechanic you should be okay in the civilian world; however, if you were in combat arms your options in the civilian world are few and far between.
I could be wrong about this, but if I remember it correctly, it is said that 10 years ago, government spent $15,000 to recruit one soldier, now the price perhaps is a bit higher. Why not using some of these money to help them to translate military experience for civilian jobs? I know quite a few Marines don't even know how to apply for GI Bill benefits they had earned. They re-enlist because military is all they got, military is all they know.
I think we should pay the troops more, cut some spending and take better care of the veterans.
I am not saying the government is not taking care of the veterans, saying this might not be very fair, but some veterans were and are disposable to this nation and I have no ideas why.
I think they should have survivable pay, and never have to face cuts in the va budget. Cut some of the unnecessary weapons programs—use that money to ensure that the troops are well paid. It is really not rocket science.
I don't know about what is more right or wrong when it comes to military compensation, but at least a volunteer force has the option -- to volunteer or not -- given the pay, the benefits, all of it. At least we can rest a little easier that no one is "forced" to accept this contract or compensation, except as I suggested before -- when someone feels their alternative options are no better if not worse.
I respect all veterans. I have to admit to having more reverence for those who voluntarily served because they VOLUNTEERED. IMO someone who would volunteer to possibly sacrifice life and limb to protect their country deserves my deepest respect whether that sacrifice comes to fruition or not. Those who don't get drafted because of the ones who volunteer should have even deeper respect for the volunteers. I'm not one who could volunteer. I would not be able to handle combat. I am awed that some are willing to take that on on my behalf. They are brave enough to do what others are too afraid to do. Yes, they deserve our reverence and support.
It's called "conditioning the masses", the intent is to make the military such a sacred cow that anyone questioning its use in constant wars of our own making can be shouted down and called unpatriotic, thus silencing their very valid criticism of the military industrial complex.
See Hermann Goering's very accurate observation on wars while held prisoner at Nuremberg
The military is separate from those who serve in the military. One can disagree with what the military does while holding those who serve in reverence. You can not like a war but love the soldier who fights in it because his country said to. The person who serves is different from the military machine.
I respect all veterans. I have to admit to having more reverence for those who voluntarily served because they VOLUNTEERED. IMO someone who would volunteer to possibly sacrifice life and limb to protect their country deserves my deepest respect whether that sacrifice comes to fruition or not. Those who don't get drafted because of the ones who volunteer should have even deeper respect for the volunteers. I'm not one who could volunteer. I would not be able to handle combat. I am awed that some are willing to take that on on my behalf. They are brave enough to do what others are too afraid to do. Yes, they deserve our reverence and support.
I hate to use movies when it comes to considering political issues, but I must admit that "Saving Private Ryan" keeps coming to mind here.
I have a lot of trouble judging a soldier based on whether they are drafted or serving as volunteer, because either way I can think of bestowing the highest honors on some and maybe not others, regardless whether they were drafted or volunteered.
For example, is the character that Tom Hanks played in "Saving Private Ryan" any more or less deserving because he was drafted? I don't think so, although all he wanted to do was get safely back to his family. He was a teacher who probably would NOT have volunteered rather than be a teacher, but there he is, risking life and limb, fighting for his country. At the same time, there were those who were drafted that went AWOL for no good reason. Just didn't have it in them to fight...
Volunteer soldier wants to protect and serve his country no more or less than that drafted teacher portrayed in the movie, and he volunteers to do so. Very noble. Another guy volunteers, because he's got nothing better to do with his life and he wouldn't mind getting the benefits, hoping he doesn't really come into harms way while in the military. Maybe not so noble...
My point is that either way, motive might be more what determines our respect over whether a soldier is drafted or volunteers.
Should veterans from an era of all-volunteer military be thought of and treated quite as reverently as those who served because they were drafted? Why or why not?
I think reverence is a bit much and I don't know of anyone in the military or out who would want to treated in such a way, but I damn sure think that they should be treated with deep and unabiding respect. Outside of the Civil War not group of American soldiers have been asked to do as much as this group of volunteers that have served over the last fifteen years. The average combat days in combat in WWII was 40 days. In Vietnam combat soldiers spent 240 days in combat, in Iraq and Afghanistan that figure rose to 310 days.
So let me say it again, Damn right they deserve all the respect that a nation can bestow.
As for the difference between volunteers and draftees... I refuse to draw a distinction between the two. While the first rushed in and others simply waited to be called, all that matters is what they did once they got there.
What do you think of the argument that since service is entirely voluntary, veterans don't necessarily deserve as many benefits as their predecessors once they return to civilian life?
What kind of price tag does one put on joining an organization where you might get blown to hell for just driving a vehicle down a side street in Tikrit? What kind of compensation is sufficient for the life long affects of traumatic brain injury, PTSD, loss limbs and paralysis. And when you consider the utter failures of the Veterans Administration one would have a valid argument that the there was no compensation whatsoever.
The military is separate from those who serve in the military. One can disagree with what the military does while holding those who serve in reverence. You can not like a war but love the soldier who fights in it because his country said to. The person who serves is different from the military machine.
What do you mean by your first sentence? That wording is a little odd. If you're saying that soldiers aren't responsible for what they do because they're just following orders, I 100% completely disagree.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins
I grew up with my dad and his cohort serving in WW-II and Korea. It was a common experience...you get drafted and serve just like everyone else. There didn't seem to be as many bumper stickers, license plates, MIA flags, window decals and other indicators proclaiming "I'm a veteran" as we see today. Maybe that comes with the all-volunteer military. The guys in WW-II and Korea didn't make their military service the defining thing in their life as it seems that some do today.
My military service does not come close to defining me, but that's a nice generalization by you. I guess that fact that I have pride in having served makes you shake your head. I do have veteran's plates, because the chances of getting pulled over by an officer of the law that is also a veteran is pretty good. I'm guessing you didn't serve, but seem to know a lot about us. I see plenty of pride from people that graduated from college. Class rings, university specialty plates, sweatshirts and tshirts. Is that what defines them? How about you? Any of these things ring a bell?
Just keep assuming, but don't you worry about me. BTW, I also happened to graduate from college.
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Huh?
They re-enlist because military is all they got, military is all they know. 
