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You don't get to change his affiliation just because he led your party into the abyss. Back then, you guys were ready to physically confront people who criticized him. (Even though being conservatives, you were gonna lose)
Some of us haven't forgot.
Not who you were talking to, but he was a Republican that was not conservative on some issues. Just like many people are a mix.
It is sad that he wasn't primaried in 2004 after breaking so many campaign promises from 2000. Remember, in 2000 he was talking about how nation building didn't work, having balanced budgets, and opposed crony capitalism. But, the Democrats didn't primary Obama in 2012 either.
I beg to differ. I'm a conservative Republican, and I don't care who lives with whom. I'm not alone in my feelings among conservatives. I lean to center (or slightly left) in most social aspects but to the right in fiscal aspects. I'm never happy with all the stands made by either Republican or Democratic parties but believe conservative fiscal policies are too important to go against.
Then you're on the fence like so many others. There are many liberals who agree with your views fiscally, but find other policies regressive. The fringe players seem to have the spotlight and relentlessly try to marginalize moderates.
For Liberals, its a simple power play as both Liberals and Muslims hate right wing Christians and want to destroy them...that's the basis of their temporary alliance. If they managed to achieve their goal of wiping our right wing Christians, the Muslims would behead the Liberals and take their women as sex slaves.
No contradiction for true liberals, if the tenets of American liberalism is acceptance of people regardless of their sex, ethnicity, race, creed, religion, or national origin where is the contradiction?
Here's a clue-pon for you to clip.
A lot of the Muslims hate you -- precisely because you ARE accepting of people regardless of blah blah.
And that doesn't change -- even if you like them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
Principles - US would also be showing the world that we do not take our own principles seriously.
Our principles of religious pluralism, individual rights, democracy and freedom?
It might be news to you, but Islam rejects ALL of those principles.
You libs need to learn history.
In fact, you need to learn a lot of things!
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
You posted a long list of quotes that show the liberals understood Iraq was a bad regime that should not be destabilized.
There isn't a single quote in there that said that.
Those quotes only said that Iraq was a bad regime and a threat to the U.S.
Do you think the rest of us can't read?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
For Liberals, its a simple power play as both Liberals and Muslims hate right wing Christians and want to destroy them...that's the basis of their temporary alliance. If they managed to achieve their goal of wiping our right wing Christians, the Muslims would behead the Liberals and take their women as sex slaves.
Well said.
Hating whites, America, Western Civilization, Christians, conservatives, freedom, democracy, personal responsibility and true pluralism....that's what racist liberal fascists are really all about.
And they'll get in bed with the lowest of the low -- the slimiest of the slimy -- in order to accomplish their agenda of hate, irrationality and stupidity.
Why don't conservatives accept the refugees is a better question. You got it backwards ask the naysayers why?
Because we have no way of knowing who these people are. Many are dangerous Jihadists and criminals. Look at what's happening in Europe right now. Open your eyes! Muslims do not come to America to live as Americans. Have you ever heard the term, "civilization Jihad?"
I've never really understood how the Republicans weren't able to tap into the conservatism of Muslims in America.
They are very family oriented in the traditional sense, and very industrious and religiously conservative.
Muslims in the US have much more common values wise with conservatives--than they do with Liberals.
On the otherhand, I definitely agree with conservatives in placing a hold on the importation of refugees en mass from certain countries. I don't know if people are familiar with just how Isis was founded, and it was primarily due to an influx of Jihadists from other radicalized Muslim countries; that's something we certainly don't need to import at this time.
It is odd that more american conservatives don't see this. From this atheist's point of view, regarding social issues, there's not all that much difference between conservative christians and conservative muslims. It seems to me that any thoughtful american who opposes the jihadists would be interested in, and supportive of, the muslims who are fleeing those jihadists, but oh well.
The refugee situation is complicated, and your question is a good one. Not all people with liberal values "want to bring muslim refugees to the states". Some do. Some want to bring some, some want all who wish to come, some want none. As someone who has progressive leanings, I am also often confused when many on the left so vehemently support anything Islam (and even deny that there is a problem with the radical views of a subset of their population), yet at the same time they support feminism. I am one of those progressives who loathes the "Regressive Left", and many of their absurd stances. On the issue of refugees, though, I think many liberals are looking past the issue of the refugees being muslim, and just looking at the fact that they are human beings. I am a humanist, and though I disagree with Islam to the nth degree, I also support equal rights and don't use one's religion as a sole factor refusing their status as a refugee. I don't want hoards of refugees entering the country (no matter their religion), but I think a reasonable and internationally cooperative initiative to place innocent refugees in places throughout the world with proper vetting is reasonable (including the US). What I (and many others) support most, however is foreign policy that doesn't include going to war with the wrong country, destabilizing regions, and using corporate welfare to support sanctioned dictators (like the Saudis) due to oil interest, but I digress....
Hope that answers some of your question, at least from my point of view.
On this, I wanted to state that I am also a humanist. I personally dislike all religions as I feel they are divisive.
However, do not look poorly upon anyone of any denomination or faith due to my believing that wanting to "believe" in something is a natural part of being a human.
On Islam, I don't see it as any more or less harmful than any other religions. All of them have fundamentalist and people who will do evil things in the name of their faith. I never let the minority of the fundamentalist become my majority opinion on an religion and as such, I do not see Islam as "evil" or bad when compared to other faiths.
All of them look poorly upon women in texts for example, the three more well known faiths in America - Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are based on many of the same philosophies and moral codes/guides. They are VERY similar, especially in regards to treatment of women in society. I am a woman and actually reading the Old Testament as a child, made me start to question my "value" to "God" as a female and I decided over the course of my life that religion was just not for me as a result.
On refugees, I am from and currently live in a city that has always accepted refugees and we have never had any great issues from them. We had a "Little Syria" 50-60 years ago in our area filled with both Lebanese and Syrian immigrants and refugees. We also received a lot of Christian African refugees from various countries, including Sudan, and during the 1970s and 1980s a lot of Buddhist Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees. I don't see any of them as any different than the others. They all are vetted and I am satisfied with that system and its checks and balances. Refugees take many months to years to be accepted and transported to our country.
Politically, I consider myself a moderate independent. I also do not follow cable news or get too involved in media portrayals of "refugees" or "Muslims" as I feel our current media is just out to incite fear in the populace and sensationalize events.
That said, I am well aware of Islamic fundamentalist and I do fee those fringe groups are a threat to our country. However, I am not of the belief that these terroristic ideas and beliefs are as widespread as the media would like us to believe. I have personally known a lot of Muslims from Iraq and Iran (we got a lot of them as refugees and immigrants after Desert Storm), Syria, Lebanon, and various countries in Africa and so I just don't fall for the sensationalism.
Many liberals support bringing muslim refugees to the states, yet muslims fundamentally hate what liberals stand for. I'm not being facetious here; can someone help me understand, or point out where I err?
Your entire premise is fallacious.
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