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ISIS are human beings. It's why they are capable of the atrocities they've committed. They have let anger and fear guide them. I am against torture not because I respect ISIS, but because I respect myself, and I respect humanity. Abandoning my humanity does ME damage, and justifying immoral, inhumane acts does humanity damage. I will not act out of anger and fear. I'm more rational than that. And I believe that the majority of human beings on this planet are more rational than that.
Constant references to "mankind", "humanity', "society". "greater good". etc. are the ravings of a case of arrested development who is convinced that (s)he knows better than anyone else what's good for all of us: in short, that behind the goody-goody smile of every "progressive", there dwells a fascist.
Thank you, Exhibit 'A'.
With regard to the original question, the point is likely moot; the choice is best left to those more familiar with the "mentality" of terrorism.
That's where you and I differ in our opinions and approach.
Or it is simply that they are evil. What exactly were the Boston Marathon terrorists afraid of? The London bombers? The Brussels bombers? Were they so afraid that Western society was failing so bad, that they figured the most logical solution was the systematic rape of women and children, or that mass beheadings is the answer?
Your argument makes no sense.
Please quantify this for me. HOW does it do you damage? How does it damage humanity? Do you really think the German view of humanity has suffered because of the Holocaust?
I don't know about the majority of people on the planet, but most citizens in Western civilization have never once killed anything larger than an insect or a mouse.
It is fear that drives their anger. Fear underlies the actions of terrorists. They already know that the majority of the world doesn't share their world-view. It's their fear that they could be wrong that makes them so capable of committing atrocities. The fear that their God doesn't exist, that the sacrifices they've made are meaningless, that their lives and their lives' purposes have no meaning. They are afraid, and they are angry and frustrated that they can't make the rest of the world believe as they do through reason and logic, so they resort to force. They are so overcome with fear, that it is reasonable to them that striking fear in the rest of the world will make us even, will make the rest of the world more like them. They try to force those that are under their control to believe the way they do, and they see the rest of the world as less than they are, because the world is blind, or flawed, or sinful. And they can justify their actions by seeing others as less than human.
When your logic is the same as the terrorists, it damages you. When you see other people as less than human, for whatever reason, it damages you. We are not separate from the rest of humanity. We are all linked together. We are part of a whole. If you damage the whole, you damage yourself.
We have to stop the terrorists. But we have to stop them without becoming like them. Giving into our fears, and justifying inhumane actions by claiming they are less than human is becoming like them. We have to resist that, no matter how enticing, how tempting it seems, because not resisting is surrendering. We cannot surrender. We have to be victorious by clinging to the principles and values that differentiate us from the terrorists.
Constant references to "mankind", "humanity', "society". "greater good". etc. are the ravings of a case of arrested development who is convinced that (s)he knows better than anyone else what's good for all of us: in short, that behind the goody-goody smile of every "progressive", there dwells a fascist.
Thank you, Exhibit 'A'.
With regard to the original question, the point is likely moot; the choice is best left to those more familiar with the "mentality" of terrorism.
Then our Founding Fathers were all cases of arrested development. I'm thrilled to be consigned to such company. And our Founding Fathers weren't fascists. Though Trump might be.
It is fear that drives their anger. Fear underlies the actions of terrorists. They already know that the majority of the world doesn't share their world-view. It's their fear that they could be wrong that makes them so capable of committing atrocities. The fear that their God doesn't exist, that the sacrifices they've made are meaningless, that their lives and their lives' purposes have no meaning. They are afraid, and they are angry and frustrated that they can't make the rest of the world believe as they do through reason and logic, so they resort to force. They are so overcome with fear, that it is reasonable to them that striking fear in the rest of the world will make us even, will make the rest of the world more like them. They try to force those that are under their control to believe the way they do, and they see the rest of the world as less than they are, because the world is blind, or flawed, or sinful. And they can justify their actions by seeing others as less than human.
When your logic is the same as the terrorists, it damages you. When you see other people as less than human, for whatever reason, it damages you. We are not separate from the rest of humanity. We are all linked together. We are part of a whole. If you damage the whole, you damage yourself.
We have to stop the terrorists. But we have to stop them without becoming like them. Giving into our fears, and justifying inhumane actions by claiming they are less than human is becoming like them. We have to resist that, no matter how enticing, how tempting it seems, because not resisting is surrendering. We cannot surrender. We have to be victorious by clinging to the principles and values that differentiate us from the terrorists.
Although I have disagreed with much of what you have posted in this thread, I could respect that it was your opinion and pretty well grounded for the most part.
But THIS post is utter nonsense and shows a complete ignorance of the matter.
All of you seem to be intent on harming a prisoner you have under your control to elicit information. While truth serums and other drugs have moral implications as well, I don't see many of you suggesting that you shoot up a prisoner with sodium pentothal to find out where the chained-up child is. Instead, it's torture that entices you. How can that be?
That is because sodium pentothal has proven to be ineffective everywhere outside of Hollywood. Heroin is a much better option if you have the time to get the prisoner hooked on it and let withdrawal set in. Opiates have been effective used by pimps to enslave women and men into forced prostitution for good reason.
although i have disagreed with much of what you have posted in this thread, i could respect that it was your opinion and pretty well grounded for the most part.
But this post is utter nonsense and shows a complete ignorance of the matter.
That is because sodium pentothal has proven to be ineffective everywhere outside of Hollywood. Heroin is a much better option if you have the time to get the prisoner hooked on it and let withdrawal set in. Opiates have been effective used by pimps to enslave women and men into forced prostitution for good reason.
There are other drugs. We don't have to resort to addiction and withdrawal.
We don't have to inflict pain. So why are so many of you so eager to inflict pain? I think many of you want to inflict pain on your enemies because they've inflicted pain on us. You see justice in that. But torture isn't justice, it evens the scales by making us like them. They have twisted and perverted their world-view into a nightmare, and rather than ending the nightmare, the people who are pro-torture simply want to perpetuate it. We are better than that.
Although I have disagreed with much of what you have posted in this thread, I could respect that it was your opinion and pretty well grounded for the most part.
But THIS post is utter nonsense and shows a complete ignorance of the matter.
Rather than calling the post "utter nonsense", you might actually put together an argument that challenges the various points. As is, your post is utterly non-responsive.
Then our Founding Fathers were all cases of arrested development. I'm thrilled to be consigned to such company. And our Founding Fathers weren't fascists. Though Trump might be.
The linkage of the beliefs and motivation of the Founding Fathers to a very hypothetical scenario is quite a stretch of the imagination.
But it might be recognized that Washington, to cite one example, is venerated precisely because he rejected the role of military strongman in favor of participation in the development of one of the most adaptable and successful systems of governance in history. (Washington. BTW. is often recognized as America's first spymaster, and a very successful one, probably due in no small part to his enthusiastic participation in Freemasonry, which can be discerned all over the Nation's capital, once one knows where to look.)
The Founding Fathers were fallible men, with severe faults (though far more so in the apparent 20/20 hindsight of the "progressives" of the present day). The idiots in Left Field can rant about "honkies with slaves" as much and as long as they like. The point remains; The system they built endured, discarding what no longer fit, and keeping and fine-tuning the rest of it.
And with regard to Donald Trump, (who is one of those eccentrics we both recognize as appearing from time to time); He's getting attention precisely because he strikes a chord with a lot of less-outspoken, more-responsible people who've been paying their dues for a longer time, and are now being demonized and discarded by the overgrown children. He won't last long if he's elected, but he will have played his part in identifying and countervailing a much greater threat.
Thanks again for demonstrating this point by your example.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-24-2016 at 10:43 AM..
Would you Torture a Terrorist if it you could stop a bombing?
FBI has said there are better ways to make people talk, so I would use those better ways.
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The founding fa
