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I think the root problem in this country is the right wing war on the poor.
Please give me a break
there are jobs out there, but jobs that seem to be beneath some people.
Yes, some might have to work two and three jobs to make it work, but who ever said life was easy...
It's not....the rewards are few....but when you can stand back and know you've done it on your own, regardless if you clean houses, do ironing for people, spray wash houses, collect garbage, it's an honest day's work. Work that you did, without robbing money from taxpayers who DO WORK>
That is, you wrote we should leave "collectivism" to team sports, but don't we need to accept "collectivism" to have public schools that in turn can offer the opportunity of team sports, like basketball? Understand?
IOWs, it isn't all quite as simple as you seem to be suggesting, or maybe I'm not clear about what "collectivism" you are referring to beyond that we leave to team sports.
PS: You can team in golf as well...
I did not miss your whole point, your missing mine.
the trouble is, collectively, we do not agree, and that is what has you upset....
but it's ok, this is simply a discussion, your views, my views...and we're allowed to disagree, perhaps we'll each learn something from one another.
Just b/c you don't understand my perspectives, doesn't make you right and me wrong. Or you wrong and me right....
I did not miss your whole point, your missing mine.
the trouble is, collectively, we do not agree, and that is what has you upset....
but it's ok, this is simply a discussion, your views, my views...and we're allowed to disagree, perhaps we'll each learn something from one another.
Just b/c you don't understand my perspectives, doesn't make you right and me wrong. Or you wrong and me right....
I'm not upset. What gives you that impression?
In fact, I wasn't even addressing you or your comment. That was No Recess's comment I was addressing...
PS: Enough with all the right or wrong already. There's your opinion, my opinion, other's opinion and why we have them. That's all. No one is going to prove anyone right or wrong here...
That is, you wrote we should leave "collectivism" to team sports, but don't we need to accept "collectivism" to have public schools that in turn can offer the opportunity of team sports, like basketball? Understand?
IOWs, it isn't all quite as simple as you seem to be suggesting, or maybe I'm not clear about what "collectivism" you are referring to beyond that we leave to team sports.
PS: You can team in golf as well...
I don't look to the state to set up every facet of my life.
It is possible to get a yourself and 9 other guys together and play a game of basketball minus a sanctioning body's approval.
Good point on the golf. But you can also challenge someone to 18 holes one-on-one if you'd like.
Again, no sponsoring body.
My problems are my problems. Your problems are your problems.
I have enough personal faults to keep my plate full on that front. I don't need any other issues in my way.
I don't look to the state to set up every facet of my life.
It is possible to get a yourself and 9 other guys together and play a game of basketball minus a sanctioning body's approval.
Good point on the golf. But you can also challenge someone to 18 holes one-on-one if you'd like.
Again, no sponsoring body.
My problems are my problems. Your problems are your problems.
I have enough personal faults to keep my plate full on that front. I don't need any other issues in my way.
Fair enough, and of course I don't look to the state to set up every facet of my life. Not sure who does, but I think most Americans like to do their own thing. Still, I know there are those who prefer group tours, and there are those who don't. We're all different in those regards.
I know you are just sharing your thoughts and/or philosophies, but as one who has loved to play basketball since I was old enough to get the ball through the hoop, I can assure you it is not always so easy to get 10 guys together for a game. Organized sports takes that problem out of the mix and enhances the sporting experience that way, at least the frequency and dependability of playing. Perhaps that is worth some consideration when extrapolating to the issue of "collectivism" and "sanctioning bodies" that might allow for such benefits like that, or the organization would probably not happen or sustain itself in the first place.
Also of course, you have your problems and I have mine, but I hope you don't impose your problems on me as I consider ways that collectivism might help alleviate my problems and those of others. Call that whatever you want, but for me..., when forces can join such that the outcome is greater or better than the sum of its individual parts, that to me is worthy of consideration, well worthy, if not the essence of how we have advanced as a people.
Or tried to build your own home or car or dish washer lately? Invent something like the Internet? Perform surgery on yourself?
Tain't at all easy on our own as individuals in some cases...
Fair enough, and of course I don't look to the state to set up every facet of my life. Not sure who does, but I think most Americans like to do their own thing. Still, I know there are those who prefer group tours, and there are those who don't. We're all different in those regards.
I know you are just sharing your thoughts and/or philosophies, but as one who has loved to play basketball since I was old enough to get the ball through the hoop, I can assure you it is not always so easy to get 10 guys together for a game. Organized sports takes that problem out of the mix and enhances the sporting experience that way, at least the frequency and dependability of playing. Perhaps that is worth some consideration when extrapolating to the issue of "collectivism" and "sanctioning bodies" that might allow for such benefits like that, or the organization would probably not happen or sustain itself in the first place.
Also of course, you have your problems and I have mine, but I hope you don't impose your problems on me as I consider ways that collectivism might help alleviate my problems and those of others. Call that whatever you want, but for me..., when forces can join such that the outcome is greater or better than the sum of its individual parts, that to me is worthy of consideration, well worthy, if not the essence of how we have advanced as a people.
Or tried to build your own home or car or dish washer lately? Invent something like the Internet? Perform surgery on yourself?
Tain't at all easy on our own as individuals in some cases...
Voluntary collectivism is fine. In fact, voluntary anything is fine as long as it doesn't violate the NAP.
But we've been over this before.
An-caps aren't opposed to voluntary associations. It's our bread & better. In fact, I'd love to be able to negotiate my own terms on the services/products you mentioned.
But alas, everything must go through daddy government first/during the proceedings.
Some folks get tired of having to ask permission to do every little thing. Most don't care or don't see it that way.
So to try to turn back to the thrust of this thread I wish more people rejected forced collectivism/violence. I see that as a huge obstacle in how people interact.
But not being a collectivist myself it's just an observation. I can't and won't use force on others.
That last point you make is the one I can certainly agree with, since I too have often pointed out that exceptions to the rule do not make the rule. However!
You are wrong to apply your bigotry as you do toward those you don't understand, like people with accents for example. True enough that one's ability to speak the native language and do it well is something of an advantage, but so is being bi-lingual! What you see on the news does not reflect the truth about all you don't see, and I don't have the time or inclination to explain all that to you, but I can tell you the story about "my people" is not as exceptional as you think!
From the people picking our fruits and vegetables to those cooking and washing our dishes in the back of restaurants, to the people doing the landscaping or construction jobs that would otherwise go undone, you won't see any news show covering those stories when everyone knows the "hunger" is for immigrant stories that threaten our lives and economic well being, whether truthfully reported or not!
I could go on with a good deal more, but I'd just be wasting my time as I have explained in "My Cement Theory" thread...
Suffice to say, I surely do not agree that America is better off without the diversity; the people of different cultures, languages, different foods, dress, looks...
No way can I agree with your kind and those who might have your kind of heartburn over a different accent. You're the one that needs to do the thinking my friend, not me!
"From the people picking our fruits and vegetables to those cooking and washing our dishes in the back of restaurants, to the people doing the landscaping or construction jobs that would otherwise go undone, you won't see any news show covering those stories when everyone knows the "hunger" is for immigrant stories that threaten our lives and economic well being, whether truthfully reported or not!"
Your responses are predictable...you've been programmed to deflect and ignore logic...and frankly you've probably benefited from taxpayer money at some point...ofcourse you'd like to keep the system just as it is.
You see, before the invasion those jobs you speak of use to be reserved for our kids...it's where they use to be able to get job experience...this was before all the 40 years olds stole their jobs and whined for a wage equivalent to a tradesman. Further, long before Reagan opened the flood gates with his amnesty bill these jobs were not going "UNDONE" in fact they were getting done by kids and real Americans and the job was done better with no communication barriers.
I love how people hide behind and use the word "diversity" in in these contexts....it's such a noble word.
This is not about diversity...Nothing to see here folks...another simple one, you just have to be willing to pull your head out of the sand and apply a little old fashioned logic.
NOPE…not the government or any other fabricated excuse…
PARENTS SUCK!
The quality of parenting in low income households is an absolute joke...animals in the wild do a better job. Kids need to know that you have expectations they MUST meet...it's not a choice, it's an absolute demand...period! Children need to be micro-managed, mentored, pushed, encouraged, disciplined, held accountable...etc. They need to truly believe that they are SUPPOSE to be successful. Being a good parent is not easy and it takes a lot of work…apparently loser parents on welfare with no job and funded by me can't find the time to put into their kids...They keep their baby factory running and turning out more of the same that I will pay for…UNBELIEVABLE!
This country is made up of excuse makers. In the real world when real people face challenges they usually get to that fork in the road where good decision making (or bad happens). Do I blame some source that I have no control over for my shortcomings and quit trying or do I put my head down and conquer? If society is always telling you that you aren't to blame, it's not your fault and your held back by everybody else...well what kind of philosophies will kids adopt?...What can we expect? Life and success or failure always boils down to your decision making processes. If you're a bad decision maker you're usually a loser....simple.
Let me tell you how simple this is...a simple recipe to succeed in this country:
Learn to speak the english language CLEARLY...rid yourself of any foreign or illiterate accents. Look, dress and act like a legitimate human. (you know exactly what that means)
Go to school...ride a bus, ride your bike, walk...whatever...get educated.
Wake up early and always think about being proactive and productive.
Set and attain goals...surround yourself with others with goals.
Never ever blame others for your struggles.
Don't break the law. Respect others and their property.
Work...get a job, keep a job until you find your next better job. Ride a bus, ride a bike, walk...just WORK!
Lead your family....Always remind yourself that your kids did not ask to be born...you owe them your very best.
Spend every minute of every day of the rest of your life doing better or thinking about doing better.
There you go people...STOP ALL THE EXCUSE MAKING AND GET TO WORK...it's just that simple. Send me royalty checks please.
I love your post! AMEN! I must say I feel like I have learned after living in Seattle (liberal Mecca) that liberals just think everything is okay. I mean when does everything stop being okay? I think America really NEEDS standards and a common people. You cannot have a country with so many different people that have so many things different about them.
My point was to address people who seem to think these sorts of changes are anything new when it comes to one generation lamenting about these sorts of changes, all different in their own ways from the times of the American Indians, of course, but pretty profound change nonetheless that has always been difficult for older folks to contend with. As a general rule, people just don't adapt to change as well as they get older. That's all.
Each generation has it's own particular "good, bad and ugly" going back well before my time and will continue well after I'm gone...
your right and you've given me food for thought, however, lets ask ourselves what started this in our generation?
Why did it get so bad?
Lets discus the issue at hand....while it is definately difficult for us older folks to contend with, this shouldn't be, not in this time or any time, for that matter.
I would like to know, when these events took place, when dems were in charge? To me, and for me, this is what happens when people practice liberal thinking....
Also, when you open the gates to allow all in, it causes chaos.
yes, your probably right, every generation has it's own good bad and ugly, but this is my time, my son's time and my grand daughters time and if something isn't drastically done, it will indeed get worse.
"From the people picking our fruits and vegetables to those cooking and washing our dishes in the back of restaurants, to the people doing the landscaping or construction jobs that would otherwise go undone, you won't see any news show covering those stories when everyone knows the "hunger" is for immigrant stories that threaten our lives and economic well being, whether truthfully reported or not!"
Your responses are predictable...you've been programmed to deflect and ignore logic...and frankly you've probably benefited from taxpayer money at some point...ofcourse you'd like to keep the system just as it is.
You see, before the invasion those jobs you speak of use to be reserved for our kids...it's where they use to be able to get job experience...this was before all the 40 years olds stole their jobs and whined for a wage equivalent to a tradesman. Further, long before Reagan opened the flood gates with his amnesty bill these jobs were not going "UNDONE" in fact they were getting done by kids and real Americans and the job was done better with no communication barriers.
I love how people hide behind and use the word "diversity" in in these contexts....it's such a noble word.
This is not about diversity...Nothing to see here folks...another simple one, you just have to be willing to pull your head out of the sand and apply a little old fashioned logic.
Your absolutely right, while I don't believe the poster that your talking to understands, he/she was in fact programed this way in college....which is one of the worst institutions today for pouring out liberal thinking.
It's got to stop....
when I was younger, I used to work in diners, and restaurants, and American's really don't realize, how many illegals work in those eating places and then get paid under the table. I saw it...they sent vans down to pick them up, and every Friday, they were handed envelopes...(cash)
companies are profiting from hiring illegals and protected by the World Trade Organization and many politicians.
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