Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I find it ironic that someone can argue all these negatives and issues revolving around this "social contract" that we're forced to accept, or not, upon being born American citizens, and yet argue they shouldn't be the ones to leave if they don't like what they find to be their circumstances upon growing up.
Something like a person born and raised in a village where collective farming has been the manner to keep food on the table all those years, but upon growing up deciding they don't like the food and rather than leave for somewhere else where the food might be better, they suggest it's the farmers that should go.
Maybe the whole issue actually boils down to whether we've grown up or not...
I find it ironic that someone can argue all these negatives and issues revolving around this "social contract" that we're forced to accept, or not, upon being born American citizens, and yet 'argue they shouldn't be the ones to leave if they don't like what they find to be their circumstances upon growing up.
Something like a person born and raised in a village where collective farming has been the manner to keep food on the table all those years, but upon growing up deciding they don't like the food and rather than leave for somewhere else where the food might be better, they suggest it's the farmers that should go.
Maybe the whole issue actually boils down to whether we've grown up or not...
I think as the OP worded it, 'having completely different visions for America'.
& trying to impose one's political, social & economic visions on one's country is what it looks like.
I think as the OP worded it, 'having completely different visions for America'.
& trying to impose one's political, social & economic visions on one's country is what it looks like.
(some are rather melodramatic while doing so)
Not sure I follow, exactly, but what I do know is that our Founding Fathers had their vision for America, and of course they codified that vision for generations of Americans to come. Also they knew that generations to come would have their own visions to promote, and as also stipulated in the Constitution, we would elect representatives to "broker" those interests for us.
I sympathize for people who have trouble accepting this arrangement, just like I sympathize for people stuck in traffic, but unless anyone's really got a better idea about how to do things better, this is America today, we live here and accept the consequences best we can, or we don't. Simple as that for me anyway...
I would describe it as misleading. There is not one liberal view and one conservative view that are diametrically opposed. Rather there is a spectrum of beliefs and most people are not at the extreme ends of it. But attention is heaped on the extremes by the people who benefit from division, and too many people lap it up rather than think for themselves.
Also, there is a lot of common ground. For example, public opinion polling suggests that a majority of people across the spectrum wants Social Security to be made solvent. It seems like we could compromise and find a solution to doing so if we tried.
It's clear liberal's and conservative's have completely different visions for America. So it's no surprise one side is unhappy when the other side gains ground for their agenda.
In one word or phrase, and without judging the other side, how would you describe two groups with opposite political agendas each trying to impose their political, social and economic visions on one country?
both sides want very different things
Conservatives: Generally want the country "Restored" to its former glory when we were the envy of the world, had the highest paying jobs, the strongest military... our allies respected us, our enemies feared us
Liberals: Generally want the country "Transformed" into something like France. they feel we owe the rest of the world an apology for our greatness, Obama appeased them by touring the world apologizing. they generally relate to our enemies and cannot identify with Patriotism
you are right, though both groups have some good points there is no common ground
Hhhmmm, so you like (corny) math jokes too? How about these:
Rene Descartes went into his favorite bar and the bar tender asked, "would you like your usual drink, Monsieur Descartes? " Descartes replied "I think not" and promptly disappeared.
There was this magnificent mathematical horse. You could teach it arithmetic, which it learned with no difficulty, algebra was a breeze, it could even prove theorems in euclidean geometry, but when you tried to teach it analytic geometry, it would rear back on its hind legs, kick ferociously neigh loudly and make violent head motions in resistance.
The moral of this story is that you can't put Descartes before the horse.
Funny, kinda sorta a math joke, but close enough, funny either way! Thanks!
Another one I always keep in mind when I'm out on the town is never to drink and derive...
Conservatives: Generally want the country "Restored" to its former glory when we were the envy of the world, had the highest paying jobs, the strongest military... our allies respected us, our enemies feared us
Liberals: Generally want the country "Transformed" into something like France. they feel we owe the rest of the world an apology for our greatness, Obama appeased them by touring the world apologizing. they generally relate to our enemies and cannot identify with Patriotism
you are right, though both groups have some good points there is no common ground
This representation is so wrong, but isn't it nice when we can simply make such statements as if they are absolute truths and accepted by everyone without question? Wrong...
I don't know who doesn't want America to be in its full "glory." Not sure when that was in the past or whether looking back is what all Americans want to do, but no one wants less than full "glory" I don't think.
Next, to be the envy of the world? This too I find hard to believe that conservatives think is their wish and not the wish of all Americans, but this comment immediately reminds me of the solidarity the world shared with us after 9/11. Maybe that isn't the same as "envy," but a sense of unity in any case, all quickly squandered by Bush as he lead us to invade Iraq.
High paying jobs, strongest military, respect of our allies, feared by our enemies..., you forgot richest country in the world!
Fact is, all Americans want these things, so again, suggesting this is somehow what conservatives stand for or want while not liberals is just hogwash -- weak, tired, propaganda hogwash.
As someone more correctly put it somewhere else, we all want the same things, we just differ in how best to get there.
All that about apology and appeasement the same sort of hogwash -- weak, tired, propaganda hogwash -- described as you will to further this effort to suggest conservatives are simply the high road and everyone else on the wrong road.
Not sure I follow, exactly, but what I do know is that our Founding Fathers had their vision for America, and of course they codified that vision for generations of Americans to come. Also they knew that generations to come would have their own visions to promote, and as also stipulated in the Constitution, we would elect representatives to "broker" those interests for us.
I sympathize for people who have trouble accepting this arrangement, just like I sympathize for people stuck in traffic, but unless anyone's really got a better idea about how to do things better, this is America today, we live here and accept the consequences best we can, or we don't. Simple as that for me anyway...
Agree it's challenging to follow the libertarian arguments mostly because it's incomplete, lacking some essentials, somewhat like a 'rabbit hole' philosophy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wrong...
