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I feel this is just exposing a paradox and not really an answer to the thread itself.
Corporatism is really just a form of capitalism. Think about it. If individuals are free to operate business in whatever way they choose, what is to stop them from form corporations that then create special interests that allow them to influence public policy. After all, the primary goal of a capitalist is to generate profit, and I'm sure you won't disagree that corporatism has been quite profitable for some people. I don't see that as being inconsistent with capitalism at all.
You might say 'but what about regulations' and while there are exceptions to what I'm about to say, many of these special interest groups formed by free market capitalists encourage these regulations. They have the financial resources to survive regulations while smaller competitors will face more hardship. This certainly isn't a free market for the small competitor, but it is a free market for the bigger guys. I'm sorry to say, it seems impossible to have a totally free market while simultaneously giving the little guy exactly as much freedom as everyone else. The free market cannot be as free for everyone after a certain point because the most successful will do whatever they can with their own private capital to expand it, and since a genuinely free market would not restrict what an individual can buy, it stands to reason that they would target the state and use that to justify monopolies and other regulatory powers, thus making a completely free market self defeating.
Honestly, this is one reason I support a stateless society. More of a bonus actually, since it's mostly a moral issue, but you're correct that you can't have a lasting free market when if there's a position in society that allows people to forcefully manipulate the market. You have to just sit back and hope that politicians and their buddies in the private sector don't rig things in their own favor...obviously not realistic.
Wrong. People associate it with capitalism because they feel anything that's for profit is capitalistic. Not true. Capitalism has nothing to do with motive, it has everything to do with methods.
Ok...? Even so, every capitalist endeavor is for profit. Rather or not that's the main goal, it's an inevitable bi-product. It's almost weird to explain it because it seems so obvious given our history, but when has capitalism not had profit as at least one of the primary goals? In order for a capitalist project to even sustain itself, it has to generate a profit. There is no other way. I guess you could argue that corporatism is the out for this, as we've seen large companies get bailouts and subsidies, but even so, these corporations still end up being highly profitable for those on top of the corporation.
I guess my point is that your point seems more like a deflection than an actual argument. Even if capitalism isn't defined by profit, separating the two is entirely impossible.
I have. No it isn't. There is corporatism within Socialist and Communist societies also.
What exactly is your argument?
Are you saying because X exists within a socialist or communist society, then X cannot also exist in a capitalist one? Because that is an absurd argument.
Are you saying because X exists within a socialist or communist society, then X cannot also exist in a capitalist one? Because that is an absurd argument.
No it isn't. If things that are anti-capitalist exist then that society is not really capitalist.
Adam Smith wrote his work "The Wealth of Nations" to put forth the idea that free market competition was the best way to create and maximize the wealth of nations. Better than things like Mercantilism, slavery, hunter-gatherer, or feudalism. The system Smith championed was called Capitalism. It puts a premium on the most efficient use of capital and in doing an activity for the lowest cost possible.
Businesses are punished by share holders if they choose to do things inefficiently. You must use the best technology and practices. You must keep wages to the minimum practical. If you can do your business with few workers you must. This may have been good at the beginning of industrial development but as the economy develops. Wealth becomes concentrated and technology improves to the point that its use eliminates jobs not create them.
The USA is plagued by slow growth and if it weren't for the retirement of the Baby Boom Generation our job growth rate is grossly inadequate because it lags behind our population growth. Although our nations net wealth is growing it is many in the form or virtual financial wealth largely due to the fact or accident of history made the US dollar the international reserve currency that underwrites about 60% of all business activities globally and dollar denominated financial obligations exceed 600 Trillion dollars. The number of dollars in non-American hands exceeds that in American hands!
In looking at the current Presidential campaign much is being said about erecting tarrif walls, and other abandonments of the free market that it begs the question ,has the free market become inadequate for managing the American economy and have we outgrown a economic system first formulated in the 18th Century?
This country is plagued by a governing class that long ago migrated to a ruling class, that has as its motive, ruling class uber alles. The disgraceful treatment of Trump and Sanders is but one small example. It is time to reform the country with 5 or so Provinces, each much bigger and hopefully powerful enough to stand up the Federal bullying, and a new Federal government that is contained within an "airtight box" that keeps it from treading on the "states" now "provinces. Each state now is too small to go it alone and soon knuckles under to Uncle Samurai, who hates any competition in the field of governance. A critical step in the reformation is the abolishment in absolutem and perpetuity of the Income Tax (as was done originally in the Constitution, but which was overturned by Amendment under very questionable circumstances). Strong term limits, both in terms of an individual office, and government in general, is important. A more powerful Constitution, both in terms in limiting the power and centralization of government of government is critical.
Propulser - I completely disagree with your proposal because it would allow some of your Provinces to reinstate rules that degrade human rights and dignity as well as allow industries to also degrade and damage natural resources for their own private profit. I would not be surprised if at least one of these Provinces reinstated race or economic based chattel slavery at worst or poor farms at least.
I prefer much more centralized control of our country because, as an example, without the central control the, to use your term, provinces down wind or down river would suffer the losses due to pollution without receiving any of the profits created by lower cost production.
Would your New Republic's constitution even have a Bill of Rights?
No it isn't. If things that are anti-capitalist exist then that society is not really capitalist.
Your first post was simply in agreement with a post that said we don't have a free market, we have a corporatist one.
What I was saying is that a free market will naturally be exploited as no restrictions exist to prevent this, thus something like corporatism is an inevitable offshoot of free market capitalism. If we want to say this means we are not a free market anymore, that's fine, but the question in the OP is if free market capitalism is the source of this problem, and I'm saying it is.
For clarity, I think that a certain level of regulation is necessary to ensure something like the formation of a corporatist plutocracy cannot happen and that human rights are not being violated.
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