Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
THINGS WE ALL CAN AGREE ON
=\=\=\=\=
Before being drawn into obtuse ideological arguments, it helps to set up some basic ideas.
Can we all agree that we want (or prefer):
__ Our lives secure from attack
__ Our property secure from thieves
__ Our liberties secure from infringement
And that we do not want (nor prefer):
__ Predators to prey upon us
__ Parasites to take from us
__ Vandals to destroy our property
Can we agree that:
__ Voluntary charity is a blessing, but compulsory charity is a curse
__ Involuntary servitude (slavery) is not a viable solution to the ills of mankind
__ Clever scams used to attack us, rob us or abolish our liberties are not acceptable, regardless of their labeling or source
__ Prosperity is based on production, trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services, and not on the volume or value of circulating money tokens
__ We should make ready for the seventh generation yet to come, based on humanity’s population geometrically increasing
Is it reasonable that governments should be limited to securing endowed rights and only governing those who consent - and nothing beyond that?
❏ Which philosophies, ideologies and / or forms of government best meet our criteria?
❏ Which recognize endowed natural rights to life and all harmless activities in support thereof ?
❏ Which recognize natural liberty - dominion over one’s person, labor, and private property absolutely owned ?
❏ Which recognize personal liberty and the right to travel upon public roads and waterways?
❏ Which recognize that the rights of the individual are not subject to the whims of the group (or majority)?
= = = =
A. Meritocracy - A system of government in which advancement is based on individual ability or achievement.
B. Technocracy - A government or social system controlled by technicians, especially scientists and technical experts.
C. Totalitarian Police State - A form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed.
D. Dulocracy - A government controlled by slaves.
E. Tyranny - Absolute power, especially when exercised unjustly or cruelly.
F. Oligarchy - Government by a few, especially by a small faction of persons or families.
G. Libertarian - One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.
H. Aristocracy - A government by a class of persons holding exceptional rank and privileges, especially the hereditary nobility.
I. Monarchy - A form of government in which supreme authority is vested in a single and usually hereditary figure, such as a king, and whose powers can vary from those of an absolute despot to those of a figurehead.
J. Republic - A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
K. Republican Form - A government in which the individual is the sovereign, and is served - not ruled - by government instituted to secure rights (Often confused with “republic”).
L. Democracy - Government by the citizens, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
M. Kakistocracy - Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.
N. Theocracy - a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities.
Is it reasonable that governments should be limited to securing endowed rights and only governing those who consent - and nothing beyond that?
In other words, the institution of government was to secure rights, via prosecution of deliberate trespass and adjudication of accidental trespass; and to defend against all enemies, foreign or domestic. But govern (i.e., rule, regulate, restrict) only those who consent - and nothing more.
Is it reasonable that governments should be limited to securing endowed rights..?
.
No. A government should be limited to whatever the people of that nation want it to be limited to. If Swedes or Canadians want their government to provide medical care and education, that's their choice.
In our case, it is summarized in the Preamble to the Constitution:
"....establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense,promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty....."
which may extend beyond merely securing endowed rights. Or not; what's your definition of "endowed" rights?
Does that mean you disagree with - - -
In other words, the institution of government was to secure rights, via prosecution of deliberate trespass and adjudication of accidental trespass; and to defend against all enemies, foreign or domestic. But govern (i.e., rule, regulate, restrict) only those who consent - and nothing more.
Is that unsatisfactory?
As long as anyone is allowed to completely ignore this government and be left alone on their property, I have no issue with it at all. If people enter into it voluntarily, thats completely their decision, and no one else's. Same with refusing to enter that agreement.
No. A government should be limited to whatever the people of that nation want it to be limited to. If Swedes or Canadians want their government to provide medical care and education, that's their choice.
In our case, it is summarized in the Preamble to the Constitution:
"....establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense,promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty....."
which may extend beyond merely securing endowed rights. Or not; what's your definition of "endowed" rights?
It in no way says give general welfare.
Government is to promote means for you to be able to compete on a level playing field with all individuals.
Not pick winners & losers of their welfare
THINGS WE ALL CAN AGREE ON
=\=\=\=\=
Before being drawn into obtuse ideological arguments, it helps to set up some basic ideas.
Can we all agree that we want (or prefer):
__ Our lives secure from attack
__ Our property secure from thieves
__ Our liberties secure from infringement
And that we do not want (nor prefer):
__ Predators to prey upon us
__ Parasites to take from us
__ Vandals to destroy our property
Can we agree that:
__ Voluntary charity is a blessing, but compulsory charity is a curse
__ Involuntary servitude (slavery) is not a viable solution to the ills of mankind
__ Clever scams used to attack us, rob us or abolish our liberties are not acceptable, regardless of their labeling or source
__ Prosperity is based on production, trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services, and not on the volume or value of circulating money tokens
__ We should make ready for the seventh generation yet to come, based on humanity’s population geometrically increasing
Is it reasonable that governments should be limited to securing endowed rights and only governing those who consent - and nothing beyond that?
❏ Which philosophies, ideologies and / or forms of government best meet our criteria?
❏ Which recognize endowed natural rights to life and all harmless activities in support thereof ?
❏ Which recognize natural liberty - dominion over one’s person, labor, and private property absolutely owned ?
❏ Which recognize personal liberty and the right to travel upon public roads and waterways?
❏ Which recognize that the rights of the individual are not subject to the whims of the group (or majority)?
= = = =
A. Meritocracy - A system of government in which advancement is based on individual ability or achievement.
B. Technocracy - A government or social system controlled by technicians, especially scientists and technical experts.
C. Totalitarian Police State - A form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed.
D. Dulocracy - A government controlled by slaves.
E. Tyranny - Absolute power, especially when exercised unjustly or cruelly.
F. Oligarchy - Government by a few, especially by a small faction of persons or families.
G. Libertarian - One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.
H. Aristocracy - A government by a class of persons holding exceptional rank and privileges, especially the hereditary nobility.
I. Monarchy - A form of government in which supreme authority is vested in a single and usually hereditary figure, such as a king, and whose powers can vary from those of an absolute despot to those of a figurehead.
J. Republic - A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
K. Republican Form - A government in which the individual is the sovereign, and is served - not ruled - by government instituted to secure rights (Often confused with “republic”).
L. Democracy - Government by the citizens, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
M. Kakistocracy - Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.
N. Theocracy - a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities.
Another day, another Rightie trying to convince the world that his/her ideology is the best.
I'd rather use the legal definitions for endowed / sacred rights -
PURSUANT TO THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE (1776):
__ RIGHT TO LIFE
__ LIBERTY
__ PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS (euphemism for private property ownership)
- - -
NATURAL RIGHTS - ... are the rights of life, liberty, privacy, and good reputation.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed., p. 1324
- - -
NATURAL LIBERTY. The power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, unless by the law of nature. The right which nature gives to all mankind of disposing of their persons and property after the manner they judge most consistent with their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits of the law of nature, and so as not to interfere with an equal exercise of the same rights by other men. 1 Bl.Comm. 125.
PERSONAL LIBERTY. The right or power of locomotion; of changing situation, or moving one's person to whatsoever place one's own inclination may direct, without imprisonment or restraint, unless by due course of law. Civil Rights Cases, 109 U.S. 3, 3 S.Ct. 42, 27 L.Ed. 835.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed., P.919
- - -
" PERSONAL LIBERTY, or the Right to enjoyment of life and liberty, is one of the fundamental or NATURAL Rights, which has been protected by its inclusion as a guarantee in the various constitutions, which is not derived from, or dependent on, the U.S. Constitution, which may not be submitted to a vote and may not depend on the outcome of an election. It is one of the most sacred and valuable Rights, as sacred as the Right to private property...and is regarded as inalienable."
- - - 16 Corpus Juris Secundum, Constitutional Law, Sect.202, p.987...
- - -
" PERSONAL LIBERTY largely consists of the Right of locomotion to go where and when one pleases only so far restrained as the Rights of others may make it necessary for the welfare of all other citizens. The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horsedrawn carriage, wagon, or AUTOMOBILE, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."
- - - II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135.
- - -
"The individual, unlike the corporation, cannot be taxed for the mere privilege of existing. The corporation is an artificial entity which owes its existence and charter powers to the state; but, the individual's rights to live and own property are NATURAL RIGHTS for the enjoyment of which an excise [tax] cannot be imposed."
Redfield vs Fisher, 292 P. 813, at 819.
" The right to labor and to its protection from unlawful interference is a constitutional as well as a common-law right. Every man has a NATURAL RIGHT to the fruits of his own industry."
48 Am Jur 2d, Section 2, p. 80
" Any claim that this statute is a taxing statute would be immediately open to severe constitutional objections. If it could be said that the state had the POWER TO TAX A RIGHT, this would enable the state to DESTROY RIGHTS guaranteed by the constitutions through the use of oppressive taxation. The question herein, is one of the state taxing the right of travel by the ordinary modes of the day, and whether this is a legitimate object of state taxation. The views advanced herein are neither novel nor unsupported by authority. The question of the taxing power of the states has been repeatedly considered by the High Court. The right of the states to impede or embarrass the constitutional operations of the the U.S. Government or the Rights which the citizens hold under it, has been uniformly denied."
McCulloch v. Maryland 4 Wheat 316.
- - - -
Summed up, endowed rights include but are not limited to natural rights, natural and personal liberty, and absolute ownership, which are constitutionally protected and not subject to taxation or other diminishment.
Of course, if one consented to be governed, and surrendered endowed rights in exchange for political and civil liberties (government privileges), then all bets are off.
Another day, another Rightie trying to convince the world that his/her ideology is the best.
Can you tell me which part of the o.p. is "rightie"?
Or are you fabricating a personal attack based on nothing?
LEFT WING - the section of a political party, government or group that holds the most left or radical views.
- - - Webster's Dictionary
RIGHT WING - the section of a political party, government or group that holding the views of the Right.
- - - Webster's Dictionary
THE RIGHT - that section of a political party ... which associates itself with traditional authority or opinion and which in legislative bodies is seated traditionally to the right of the presiding officer.
- - - Webster's Dictionary
THE LEFT - that section of a political party ... which differs most from traditional authority or opinion and which in legislative bodies is seated traditionally to the left of the presiding officer.
- - - Webster's Dictionary
- - -
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
