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It's a conservative religion when followed the way it's supposed to be followed, and when their numbers reach any appreciable amount "liberal" society starts to bend to their conservative demands.
Of course there are muslims-on-the-holidays-only, cultural muslims and liberal Muslims.... but those are NEVER strong enough to resist the power of the conservative elements in their religion. Hence why 99% of Muslim-majority nations are deeply conservative hell holes.
Muslims are not of a single mind. An Indonesian Sunni, a Syrian Shiite, a Lebanese Sunni, and a Saudi Sunni have very little in common - less probably even than Methodists and Catholics. The religion by it's observation is conservative but it's adherents hold vastly different opinions. Would most be against gay marriage and transgender rights - probably as are most devout Christians.
To suggest that allowing Muslims to emigrate to the US would lead to Sharia law or even a Mulsim state is absurd. In fact most Muslims who come to the US become more liberal (oh no that word again). Religious conservatives would be loathe to admit it but they have much in common with Muslims in terms of their tolerance towards others, different from themselves.
Muslims are not of a single mind. An Indonesian Sunni, a Syrian Shiite, a Lebanese Sunni, and a Saudi Sunni have very little in common - less probably even than Methodists and Catholics. The religion by it's observation is conservative but it's adherents hold vastly different opinions. Would most be against gay marriage and transgender rights - probably as are most devout Christians.
To suggest that allowing Muslims to emigrate to the US would lead to Sharia law or even a Mulsim state is absurd. In fact most Muslims who come to the US become more liberal (oh no that word again). Religious conservatives would be loathe to admit it but they have much in common with Muslims in terms of their tolerance towards others, different from themselves.
Yes, that's why I stated that there are liberal Muslims, cultural Muslims, etc.
But the fact remains that there is basically NO example of a "secular liberal" nation with a Muslim cultural background anywhere on earth. Even our most conservative states in the US (say, for example, Utah) are hedonistic founts of progressive values in comparison.
Turkey is the closest thing, perhaps, and it's no liberal bastion. Heard that Azerbaijan or one of them is also fairly OK, but mostly because they're pretty secular due to decades of Soviet atheism.
There you go. I'm all for it. The only people liberals and progressives truly hate to the very core of their being are white male conservatives. Paint the Muslims as the epitome of white male conservative Christians and you'll see immigration restrictions that would make FDR blush.
It seems that in the US conservatives are the people who are against muslim refugees & are always against an issue that involves a muslim.
Liberals tend to be the ones who rally in support of Muslims & do whatever they can do help give them equal rights.
But when you think about it aren't Muslims more on the conservative side in terms of moral issues? Against gay marriage etc.
So it got me thinking. If an American liberal went to another country to live he/she probably would not see eye to eye with a lot of what the muslim country believes in. Yet in America they feel as if they are on the same team.
Almost seems ironic that if it was up to liberals this country would have millions of refugees enter the country for safety. Then the muslim population grows faster than any other group of people. Then they start to become the majority in some cities & begin passing laws that liberals have always been against. I.e. gay marriage outlawed & other religious type laws.
Obviously were talking many years down the road where this could become a reality but maybe I'm mistaken but it's part of their faith to try and live live according to the Koran. So it seems they would have a duty to try and make laws following that.
Ignoring the absurdity of labeling an entire religious group of 2 billions people as being one political ideology or the other, I want to point out the weakness of the terms you're trying to define them as. Liberal and conservative are not at all universal terms. The context of where and when you say it is crucial. See, 400 years ago, every single member of this board, bar some of the Marxists, would be liberals. No questions asked. The guy who believes the president should be a devout Christian and gays should be sent to therapy is a liberal in that context. A conservative would be someone who believes monarchs are what is best. A liberal in this sense is someone who believes in individual liberty, equality, and democratic/republican forms of government. There are Muslims who think this way. There are Muslims who do not.
Within American politics, a liberal is someone who generally believes in social justice (rooted in equality), economic safety nets, and a republican form of government while a conservative is someone who believes in free market capitalism, traditional American values, and republican forms of government. There is overlap in the two. Both believe in equality. They would express that equality in different ways, but neither would say equality is a bad thing. Again, Muslims are part of both ideologies.
In both scenarios, Muslims can be either liberal or conservative (understanding that conservative in the first example, as it applies to Islam, would have less to do with monarchs that we saw in Western Europe and more about caliphates or other forms of theocratic governments).
Yes, that's why I stated that there are liberal Muslims, cultural Muslims, etc.
But the fact remains that there is basically NO example of a "secular liberal" nation with a Muslim cultural background anywhere on earth. Even our most conservative states in the US (say, for example, Utah) are hedonistic founts of progressive values in comparison.
Turkey is the closest thing, perhaps, and it's no liberal bastion. Heard that Azerbaijan or one of them is also fairly OK, but mostly because they're pretty secular due to decades of Soviet atheism.
Most Muslim countries do not separate Church and State - some do - Turkey, Lebanon to name two).
Have you actually been to a Muslim country ? I have had a drink in most of the countries below even ate pork in several of them. Most are quite a bit less conservative than anywhere in Utah. They might not be liberal in the model of Amsterdam, Netherlands but they are open and welcoming to all creeds - Try Malaysia, Indonesia, Bahrain, Lebanon, India even the UAE and Oman.
Still not proving that Muslims can't coexist with nonmuslims.
Most Muslim countries do not separate Church and State - some do - Turkey, Lebanon to name two).
Have you actually been to a Muslim country ? I have had a drink in most of the countries below even ate pork in several of them. Most are quite a bit less conservative than anywhere in Utah. They might not be liberal in the model of Amsterdam, Netherlands but they are open and welcoming to all creeds - Try Malaysia, Indonesia, Bahrain, Lebanon, India even the UAE and Oman.
Still not proving that Muslims can't coexist with nonmuslims.
Add Jordan to the list. You can get a drink, eat pork, and wear your bikini to the beach (although you may get uncomfortable stares if you are at the public beach rather than an expensive hotel beach). Yes, it is conservative compared to most places in the US, but not as drastically conservative as you might imagine.
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