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Defending facts of incident. Their statements and actions of suggesting to turn off cameras is inexcusable.
The kid died interacting and escalating a very dangerous situation. The Kid is the main reason he is dead.
If someone is driving recklessly at you and your family and you have a means via deadly force to stop them, you would do it. CORRECT?
The kid was killed, by being shot in the back There are policies against this, the reason is, its people like you that are out for blood, and many of those police think the same way, which is why they had to make the policies in the first place. It has to be said over and over again, the police are not Executioners, they grab the guy and bring him to jail.
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Originally Posted by CapnTrips
Does it really need to be spelled out that some PD shootings are justified and others are not? That police in this country engage in hundreds or thousands of these incidents every day and some don't turn out well? Still, while it is right that the public be concerned over individual incidents, there is no more cause to attack police in general, verbally or otherwise, than there is cause to verbally attack the communities that produce the civilians involved. What is needed is for people to engage in rational discussion and problem solving on both a local and national level.
The problems can easily be solved, even the problems that make the ghetto the ghetto, but this will never happen as long as people in America have the gladiator mentality. At least until it happens to them. Whats worse, I'd be willing to bet that many people here have had cops scream at them once or twice, unwarranted, and they believe the cop was right. Its like battered wife syndrome. They dont believe that cops shouldnt conduct themselves that way. Some people are smart, and complain to the department, but thats usually in well off neighborhoods, the police dont mess with those people.
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Originally Posted by Steve40th
Uh er...., I dont care. He escalated the incident, he tried to kill someone. Then he ran from them. They thought he had shot at them, so he was an armed and dangerous felon running through public housing. I would have shot the little perp myself, even as a civilian if coming through my property after displaying such disregard for life. He was a threat to the safety and security of the people of Chicago and the Chicago PD.
Go do a few ride alongs with cops. I challenge you..
How many ride alongs have you done? BTW if you shot the "little perp" yourself, you would have been thrown straight into the jail and convicted of murder. How would you feel then?
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Originally Posted by SAAN
For everyone saying he didnt have to die, its punks like this that will car jack you or steal your car, go to jail and be out a in few years with good behavior due to overcrowding(thanks war on drugs) and since he is a felon and cant get a job, will probably steal a car again and kill you if he needs to. People like that kid will go in and out of the system their whole life.
This is the justice system that was created, and also puts innocent people in jail, because of overzealous police and the war on drugs, whic his why we have to have people released. people arent defending the kid, they are defending what the justice system is supposed to be. Which is the trial and rehabilitation.
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Originally Posted by SAAN
Many dont realize as well in these pursuits, if the suspect or cops crashes into you, the police can be exempt from any charges or lawsuits. Ive seen it happen in GA many times and the cops were not liable because they were in pursuit and they injured the other party pretty bad. If cops were held accountable for pursuing someone in a public street and what can happen as a result, they would think twice about it if the offense isnt serious. Im all for shooting into a car if a suspect wants to flee if thats what stops many innocent people from being injured, crippled or killed as a result if them running through intersections, so be it.
Shooting into cars is against policy in many departments, especially in cities, because cops didnt follow policy when it came to the right reasons to shoot into cars, they were shooting people needlessly, so it had to stop. These arent rocket scientists that we have in these departments, hairdressers get more time training than police in this country.
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Originally Posted by Speleothem
Some mistakes are worse than others, but a mistake is not murder.
I don't know what fool would take a job where a judgement
error would cost you everything, including your freedom.
A mistake is murder when the suspect is shot in the back. They have policy against that for a reason, you have have cops just shooting willy nilly, innocent people get killed because of it. These cops shot at the car when they werent supposed to, which made the cops on the other side think the suspect was shooting at them, which made them make erroneous decisions. So the only fools that should be taking the jobs, are people that actually want to help the community, and not use shooting as a first result, and want to follow the rules.
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Originally Posted by fellow26
Here's my take on it: It doesn't make sense to judge the cops in any single situation when we don't know what happened. People want to presume the guilt of police officers because of a general assumption that police brutality is widespread.
And you like to make the general assumption that the cops are always right, so isnt that just as bad as a general assumption?
Actually 2 things happened that make people assume the guilt of the police officers. They cop that did the shooting either turned off his camera, or the department saw the incriminating video and said "the camera didnt work" to keep from charging the officer. Whats worse, cops that wake up out saying they want to kill someone, or cops that dont feel bad that they killed someone? Its pretty much the same thing. Btw if you see the same police message boardds that I see, they are out for blood. At least thats what they typed.
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Originally Posted by Steve40th
Yes a cop can kill a criminal in the commission of a crime. Read Deadly Force, and you will understand. In the military and LEO, we are authorized to stop a person by any means necessary if someone is threatening the life of someone. Its a fine line too. Be very cautious of JUDGING a LEO/Military person when they act on something. Unless you are in their shoes, no training will ever get you ready for every situation.
Sounds to me like the get it right in other countries, with many more years of training and no actual deaths by the police, with no fine lines. Sounds like you guys just want the lines to be vague so you can make careless mistakes based on adrenaline rushes instead of assessing situations. Makes a good argument for ALOT more training.
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Originally Posted by Steve40th
The kid was not killed in cold blood. Why dont you understand what he was doing was potentially putting other lives at risk. Honestly think about it. Think of some kid recklessly driving down a street running people over, wouldnt a shot to the head to stop him be a good idea? Think NICE.
This is the immature mentality that fosters the police state. The kid was shot in the back while running, thats not policy, and it was cold blood.
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Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
My point is, if they'd done something like that then it'd be pretty blatant. If I was doing the sorts of things this guy from the story was doing, I'd expect to get shot at bare minimum, with a pretty high chance of getting shot and killed.
The reactions I'm seeing are, "These cops think they are judge, jury and executioner." But that's not what we're talking about.
I think every cop in our nation should wear lapel and car cameras at all times. If they acted inappropriately, then we should have their POV video footage to hold them accountable and to work in their defense when they're falsely accused.
The problem is that isnt happening. Every time there is a shooting that is questionable, the footage disappears, or didnt work. It doesnt take a rock scientist to see that the police hide the footage or turn it off ifor when its incriminating. Police departments cant be held liable because they will have to conduct reforms, and none of the departments believe they need reform.
Cops are not getting convicted because of the prosecutors that are in bed with them, and refuse to convict. btw, cops are supposed to be better trained so that you dont have to be a stiff mannequin in your car when they make a stop. Whats worse, they will say you are nervous and that makes them suspicious. Its all tactics that they use to escalate a situation and make an arrest, so they get a promotion, or so that they can fulfill their arrest quotas, so their city comptrollers can keep upping the citys revenue.
What the other problem is that people like you think that the cops should be their executioner, and kill all the bad people that you dont like. Dont you see how ridiculous that thinking is?
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Originally Posted by ScottfromPHX
Guys this is how you take a thug down, same situation except she's still alive and they user a taser while she WASN'T a=handcuffed, she ran INTO a cop car, and still made it out alive.. So why couldn't that young man get the same treatment?
I would bet that these cops arent from a city, where the people hate the cops and the cops hate the people. So the treatment wont be the same.
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Originally Posted by quigboto
The kid was a criminal, no one is disputing that. What is bizarre is that some people seem to think that cops should be able to execute him while he ran away unarmed.
These people think the same as the not so smart police. they think that if you arent blindly supporting killing people, that you support criminals. I guess some people think that if they speak against police (their gods) that theyll instantly go to hell. Shame really.
Define being killed in cold blood. And then explain how this situation fits that.
Shot in the back while unarmed =/= in cold blood...? But "shoot/kill first, ask questions later" is cool.
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Originally Posted by Steve40th
The kid was not killed in cold blood. Why dont you understand what he was doing was potentially putting other lives at risk. Honestly think about it. Think of some kid recklessly driving down a street running people over, wouldnt a shot to the head to stop him be a good idea? Think NICE.
Where were those other lives that were "supposedly" at risk? And how was he not killed in cold blood when you clearly see his back and shirt awash with blood as he was cuffed? Learn to pay attention to the smallest details, for once.
What lives were in danger when he was fleeing, unarmed, on foot?
Did you even watch the video? He wasn't driving when he was shot in the back.
The kid was a criminal, no one is disputing that. What is bizarre is that some people seem to think that cops should be able to execute him while he ran away unarmed.
that's the point, if you let some of the people go at it- they would execute them all-- thanks God he can see intent
The problem is that isn't happening. Every time there is a shooting that is questionable, the footage disappears, or didn't work. It doesn't take a rock scientist to see that the police hide the footage or turn it off for when its incriminating. Police departments cant be held liable because they will have to conduct reforms, and none of the departments believe they need reform.
This one is easy! Run the footage on an immediate real-time upload that saves to the cloud. Any cloud hosting entity worth a damn will create backups and backups of backups. You simply don't allow them to erase anything ever. And it's easy enough to design it so that a malfunctioning or non-functioning camera sends up a huge red flag. Except in extreme circumstances, if a cop's cameras are glitchy then they must immediately go back to the station and get them replaced. A cop making an arrest with a non-functioning lapel cam gets an immediate suspension and independent investigation.
Point is that you can make it work. You can make it impossible for cops to cover things up too.
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Cops are not getting convicted because of the prosecutors that are in bed with them, and refuse to convict. btw, cops are supposed to be better trained so that you don't have to be a stiff mannequin in your car when they make a stop. Whats worse, they will say you are nervous and that makes them suspicious. Its all tactics that they use to escalate a situation and make an arrest, so they get a promotion, or so that they can fulfill their arrest quotas, so their city comptrollers can keep upping the city's revenue.
In the vast, vast, vast majority of cases, the police are not "killing some black guy cuz it's fun." They are generally following their training and using restraint, but something happens leading them to believe that their life is in very real danger. Are there some bad eggs in the mix? Sure. But even the corrupt cops are rarely in it to elevate their own personal body count. Tons of police will go their entire career without ever even drawing their gun. If there is a trend towards promoting police who have shot multiple people, then obviously that needs to be addressed. If it takes a third party with no agenda to investigate and clean things up in a given area, then by all means do that.
What we're seeing lately: If a cop shoots somebody and that somebody happens to be black, then the cop is automatically assumed to be guilty of being a corrupt racist cop who gets a thrill out of killing black people every chance he gets. That's a ridiculously huge logical leap to make.
The really big unintended consequence is that all police are being demonized. Truth is, your neighborhood (any neighborhood) is a safer place because there is a police presence. The worst neighborhoods in America become the worst because they've gotten so bad that the cops are afraid to go there -- and if the police presence were increased, those neighborhoods would improve. The single biggest factor making bad neighborhoods bad is the people living there killing, robbing and raping each other.
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What the other problem is that people like you think that the cops should be their executioner, and kill all the bad people that you don't like. Don't you see how ridiculous that thinking is?
What's ridiculous is assuming that I believe any of that. I don't.
This is why I hate piece of crap thugs. it inevitably leads to bad police work. Because of sleazy dirt bag thinking he should make ends meet being a parasite while risking other people's lives fleeing police, we need police. Since this happens so often from a welfare state fed ghetto sleaze bag factory, we end up a very dirty job no decent person would want to do.
Then we end up with police on the edge of decency acting with hate that we can hardly blame them for.
The worst part about thugs is they bring the police. The more often thugs do their thuggery , the more often they bring bad policing.
This is why I hate piece of crap thugs. it inevitably leads to bad police work. Because of sleazy dirt bag thinking he should make ends meet being a parasite while risking other people's lives fleeing police, we need police. Since this happens so often from a welfare state fed ghetto sleaze bag factory, we end up a very dirty job no decent person would want to do.
Then we end up with police on the edge of decency acting with hate that we can hardly blame them for.
The worst part about thugs is they bring the police. The more often thugs do their thuggery , the more often they bring bad policing.
But there are also thugs in the police force, let's not forget.
Just so I'm clear on this.... The guy is in a stolen car, tried to elude police in said car, smashed into multiple police cars, almost ran at least one officer over with car, fled on foot after the car was disabled.... and it's the cops fault he's dead?
Gimme a break, your actions have consequences and if you are going to act like that expect a short life span.
Yes you are clear about the actions of a typical 21st century civil rights hero.
But there are also thugs in the police force, let's not forget.
Agreed. In NYC, the Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB) keeps records of those who are most likely to act out:
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...CCRB Records show that 40 percent of the 35,000 officers on the force today have never been the subject of a citizen complaint. Another 20 percent have only one. Yet about a thousand cops have 10 or more complaints. One has been able to rack up 51. The name of that officer is confidential, as are the names of any officer who is the target of a CCRB complaint.
“If an officer has a pattern of a lot of complaints, let alone substantiated complaints, that officer is certainly worth watching and even warning and certainly retraining,” Emery said.
Yet — at least until now — the department hasn’t seemed too interested in using the board’s trove of records to spot problem officers. ...
Actually using the cameras would be helpful also.
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But "shoot/kill first, ask questions later" is cool. 
