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Old 09-10-2016, 10:47 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,464,007 times
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p.s. is a moderator reads this, could you please add a 'space' to the title? As in "Radio head", which is what I had intended. (I'm sure it was a subconscious slip, as I have certainly heard of Radiohead even if I know nothing about the members or their music.)
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,050 posts, read 505,729 times
Reputation: 296
Ok, here's how we-the-people get screwed.

Beginning with Reagan the top federal tax bracket was repeatedly reduced from 70% down to less than 40%. This caused big business to grant themselves (CEOs, top officers, and Board members) higher income since income taxes are low. (Previously corporations plowed more back into the business and into more employees because it provided a tax write-off.) So top incomes rose and their tax expense fell.

Then trade agreements made it attractive for businesses to move their headquarters overseas to pay even lower taxes so they could pay even more to the owners (CEOs, top officers, and the Board members). And this stopped workers' wages from rising as the owners took the money for themselves "because they can".

So we have (follow this!) higher incomes for those at the top, lower real incomes for the rest of us, and inadequate federal tax revenue for infrastructure, poverty programs (and due to changes those in poverty has increased), technology funding, educational supports, etc, etc.

So the next step in screwing us is what happens when the "conservative" talking heads and politicians get their braindead lackeys to scream "everyone should pay their fair share including the poor!!!!" And then to call for lower taxes on the rich. More and more the burden is shifting to the middle class.

Bottom line:
Systematically the rich get lower taxes starting with Reagan, higher incomes, and then calls for still lower taxes today. Meanwhile the rest of us get lower incomes, threat of higher taxes, higher under-employment, and increasing costs for everything from education to drugs.

With that situation facing us, now there's increasing calls to reduce taxes on the rich and raise them on the rest of us still more. Meanwhile the income inequality keeps increasing.
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:48 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,961,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Agree. But, as Europe is quickly learning, you can't have open boarders and sustain that type of system.
No one has open borders and the system has been in place for more than a 100 years. The big money donor class are always trying to portray it as failing and will continue to do so for the next 100 years.
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:49 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,464,007 times
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Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
Subjective Theory of Value: you were paid what each of you (you and the person buying the labor you were offering) agreed the work and the time were worth, in a mutually beneficial exchange.

You think union shop employers seriously believe the labor of each worker is worth union scale?

If so, why then did my public college employer pay me one-fifth what they paid the union janitors?
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:52 AM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,660 posts, read 5,089,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Of course, that is easy when you pay your workers poverty-level wages Because employers prefer to pay more than their fair share of taxes than to pay their employees more and thereby lower their taxes.

So do you think that employers should merrily pay their workers more, increasing the cost of doing business and reducing overall profits? When the workers are willing to receive the agreed-upon wages they're now receiving?


It's a business, and the purpose of the business is to generate profit for the owners/stakeholders. A business is not a social welfare program, and "fair" is relative. If you don't want to work for $7.50/hr, then no one is forcing you to. Move along because someone else will take that job. If you want more, then make yourself worth more.


The minimum wage should be abolished. Your wage should be completely dependent on the value you offer to an employer. Minimum skills get minimum return.
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:54 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,961,631 times
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The people in here are arguing that it is the rich who pays corporate income taxes which makes their tax burden so high, and then in the next sentence say that the corporate taxes are paid by consumers. You cant have it both ways!
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:55 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,385,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode View Post
...
With that situation facing us, now there's increasing calls to reduce taxes on the rich and raise them on the rest of us still more. Meanwhile the income inequality keeps increasing.
Set the minimum wage as a fraction of the top. 1/100th? 1/1,000th?


Or a high top marginal tax rate.
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:57 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,961,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
So do you think that employers should merrily pay their workers more, increasing the cost of doing business and reducing overall profits? When the workers are willing to receive the agreed-upon wages they're now receiving?


It's a business, and the purpose of the business is to generate profit for the owners/stakeholders. A business is not a social welfare program, and "fair" is relative. If you don't want to work for $7.50/hr, then no one is forcing you to. Move along because someone else will take that job. If you want more, then make yourself worth more.


The minimum wage should be abolished. Your wage should be completely dependent on the value you offer to an employer. Minimum skills get minimum return.
So you are advocating a Latin American dog-eats-dog society? A huge desperate underclass and a super rich elite at the top? Prepare for massive spikes in inequality and crime which YOU will have to pay for. Dont believe for a second that massive increases in inequality wont affect you. Wealth=political power at YOUR expense! That means the opinion of the 99.9% will have no influence on public policy. And you are celebrating this!
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,658 posts, read 6,277,759 times
Reputation: 4111
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
You think union shop employers seriously believe the labor of each worker is worth union scale?
Probably not, and this type of anti-competitive price-fixing collusion is a perfect illustration of why I am not a fan of labor unions. It's no different than a group of stores getting together to fix the price of a good at an artificially high level.
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,050 posts, read 505,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Touche...I honestly don't know because I don't currently understand how my lifestyle and standard of living would be different. I know I'd rather have a small studio apartment than a bedroom in an overcrowded house shared with drunks, druggies, growers, dealers, and sex offenders.
What does that have to do with anything? Are you afraid you'll end up in public housing for the homeless?

Surveys and studies show that Denmark is the highest in citizen satisfaction. Their citizens feel that their government is working for their benefit as it should, that they are well protected from crime, that they get a fair deal in life without having to look over their shoulders constantly, that their risk of health cost breaking them is nil, and that they will not be destitute in retirement if they have no children to take care of them.

Such life satisfaction is worth something. Reduced worry, stress, and anxiety means fewer ulcers and better health on average. It also means happier families and therefore less marital strife and fewer divorces.
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