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Regarding posts 22 and 23. You guys just don't get it. If you look at post #20 you can see that our NATO partners have a minimum of 20 days vacation by law. No one is talking about seizing the means of production from the owners. We just want a better deal.
I've been told to leave the USA if I don't like the way things are here. Guess what. The Europeans don't want us there. When the morons who are happy in workers purgatory told me to leave, I told them to wake up and change.
So that things are in their proper perspective here in the land of the free, Eugene Debs, the only real Socialist of the twentieth century started polling too well in national elections. He got thrown in jail for speaking outside of the box.
It amazes me, looking at post #20, how so many people can be opposed to having benefits like that here, particularly people who are exhausted from never having a vacation, and who must decide, when they are sick, if they should stay home and lose their pay for that day, or, possibly, even their job by doing so.
And we have yet to even address the issues of minimum wage and health care in this discussion...
We are not number one, per capita, but we are in the top 10.
As Tonyafd pointed out, the goal is not to take the means of production from business owners, but simply to protect rank and file employees from exploitation. I don't consider that redistribution of wealth, I consider it common decency: people being properly compensated for their time and effort.
We can talk about wealth redistribution if you like. One example that comes to mind is that of the CEO who runs his or her company into the ground, causing thousands of layoffs that cost families their livelihoods, and end up not losing a thing themselves, but instead getting a golden parachute worth millions. Isn't *that* redistribution of wealth?
Going there fast and most democrats don't realize they are believing in socialist ideas and policies. The college students are taught to think socialist.
This will divide our country. It never was like this before. It started in the 60's with protests and now we have many more believing in socialists policies . This country is full of communists. The colleges have mostly communist thinkers who are professors. Don't be a conservative or you will get expelled. I know one fellow was expelled from school for his conservative views and is fighting in court for his conservative rights in NYC.
Well I'm sure the form of government European countries have fully explains their outcomes. Why, you could replace all the native Europeans there with muslim middle easterners or anyone else and outcomes wouldn't change a bit and would only improve .
It amazes me, looking at post #20, how so many people can be opposed to having benefits like that here, particularly people who are exhausted from never having a vacation, and who must decide, when they are sick, if they should stay home and lose their pay for that day, or, possibly, even their job by doing so.
And we have yet to even address the issues of minimum wage and health care in this discussion...
It works great when you have a small homogeneous, highly educated, hard working culture where most all are contributing & people only use the safety net if they must. Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland, notice a pattern? The same reason our welfare systems work so well here in Minnesota, or in New Hampshire, Vermont or Oregon. If you transfer that exact same system to Haiti, El Salvador or Sierra Leone, it won't work the same way as it does in Norway. Same reason our system in Minnesota won't work the same way in Louisiana or New Mexico. If you have more people taking than contributing, then it's just a ponzi scheme, that's why it's important everyone work & immigrants be skilled so they can contribute.
There are lots of social democracies around the world. In fact, all our closest allies are social democracies. And that is what is referred to in American discourse as "democratic socialism". Socialism in the literal sense refers to workers owning the means of production. In no country has the workers ever owned the means of production no matter how many times the right wingers try to convince us that various countries were or are socialist in the literal definition of the word.
This idea that social democracy cant work in a large society is such a cop-out. Where is the proof of that? Germany works just as well as Denmark with 15 times as many people. Medicare and Social Security is working just fine. Those are prime examples of social democratic policies in America. Not only are they effective, but they are also highly popular. They should be expanded. The GOP can kick and scream all they want but the people want to see them expanded to the dismay of the big money donor class and their puppets in Congress.
Oil pays for a lot of things unless you are in the USA.
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