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We can't accept any demise of NATO because Russia does not like NATO... One would do well to ask,Why has Russia NOT made effort and modification in their national ideology and Joined NATO? If they want to be a Global Diplomatic Player and Seek the Same Peace that NATO is designed to support and Keep, then Why has Russia taken such an oppositional stance against Joining NATO?
Can anyone answer that question with a reasonable response?
One could just as easy ask this question.
Why hasn't NATO adopted policies where the largest and most powerful country in Europe, would want to join?
i.e. Your question is fallacious. It presumes that Russia is doing something wrong by not joining.
But let's not pretend that we're innocent in all of this. We have been doing similar things to Russia. We've had spies ejected from Russia, we've encircled them, we've destabilized neighbouring countries, we've attempted to covertly influence their internal politics, etc.
Much of the media outrage towards Russia has been manufactured, and highly hypocritical.
The countries surrounding Russia are by and large now western and are part of the EU and NATO, and they are not being destabilised, whilst NATO does not continually enter Russian Airspace in the way Putin's Russia does.
Of course we gather intelligence on Russia, however we don't openly murder people or political opponents the way Putin has, and if we had any real influence in Russia then believe me Putin would not be leader, then again there have been allegations of electoral fraud made against Putin himself.
America has been invading and/or bombing countries right and left (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, Granada, Dominican Republic), fighting proxy wars in other countries (Nicaragua), using the CIA to try to overthrow foreign governments (South Vietnam, Iran, Chile, Cuba) since WW II, and has set itself up as the world policeman with at least 140 military bases all over the world.
But when Russia throws its weight around a little bit, we're supposed to be outraged.
Too funny.
Yes, America had its reasons for doing what it did.
So does Russia.
What is too funny is that in 2012 Republicans were were all backing Romney when said:
"Russia is not a friendly character on the world stage. And for this president (Obama) to be looking for greater flexibility, where he doesn't have to answer to the American people in his relations with Russia, is very, very troubling, very alarming."
(wow, it almost seems like he could really be talking about Trump's actions now)
"And if he's planning on doing more and suggests to Russia that - that he has things he's willing to do with them, he's not willing to tell the American people - this is to Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe. They - they fight every cause for the world's worst actors. The I - the idea that he (Obama) has some more flexibility in mind for Russia is very, very troubling, indeed.
At the time Democrats were pushing for a reset of relations with Russia. Just as late as last summer, before Trump won the party nomination, the GOP was still pushing the idea that Democrats were still woefully naive in trying to dismiss Russia as our adversary.
And both parties have had their hand in trying to stop the "domino theory" (coined by Ike) over the years, so no one's hands are clean in trying to stop communism, promote democracy and develop capitalism so the US had new trading partners and markets.
I'm not sure why the GOP suddenly (since Trump entered the picture) has had a 180 degree change of heart in regards to their opinion of Russia, undoing their previous 70 years thinking in less than 8 months.
The countries surrounding Russia are by and large now western and are part of the EU and NATO, and they are not being destabilised.
Western? Russia is Western depending upon the definition of the word. And the EU has huge significant problems. There is no stability in places like Greece.
Oh, that's right, it IS dinnertime over there, isn't it !
Well, there was that one little disagreement we had with you guys in the late 1700's, so you might have a point.
Yeah, but we got over that little skirmish didn't we......... The truth is we love a war........ as long as we win it. I should think Russia also love a victorious war as well. We should try and get along with them, especially dealing with ISIS. Not kissing cousins by any means, but just get along. Time to stop frothing at the mouth over Russia.
Wars we don't like are the long winded, dragged out wars. Especially ones that cost many of our soldiers lives, and leave many maimed. Those wars ruin political careers. This guys war ruined his. Thatcher's war made her.
The US and Russia are on opposing teams ideologically and strategically. We can be friends but we are still in fierce competition with them. Most of a our allies will ask us to chose between them and Russia. It's simple in order for us to be safe globally we need to expand democracy and the expansion of democracy is something that Russia needs to stop in order to stay powerful or even relevant in world affairs.
Under the current dictator its all about the money. Putin is stealing and hiding money off shore as well as the oligarchs that help him stay in power.
Putin is not interested in peaceful coexistence, He is interested in returning to the Soviet era and making as much money as he can.
NATO has a set of policies which countries from the former Soviet Union are more the happy to join. The current mess in Ukraine is about the idea of that country joining the Euro. Union and NATO. Putin does not like that and has tried to destroy Ukraine.
The US and Russia are on opposing teams ideologically and strategically. We can be friends but we are still in fierce competition with them. Most of a our allies will ask us to chose between them and Russia. It's simple in order for us to be safe globally we need to expand democracy and the expansion of democracy is something that Russia needs to stop in order to stay powerful.
Describe these ideological and strategic differences.
Which allies have asked us to choose between them & Russia?
------
Reality - The rest of the world wants the worlds two largest, by far, nuclear powers to get along. They combined have the power to destroy the world at least 10x. (once would be enough)
Western? Russia is Western depending upon the definition of the word. And the EU has huge significant problems. There is no stability in places like Greece.
Western as opposed to the old East and Western European Blocs and ideologies.
Russia has never been western in the true sense of the word, at best it is currently an extremely corrupt state run by a organised elite who have asset stripped the country and diverted funds in to their own pockets, indeed it was murdere Alexander Litvinenko who first coined the phrase Mafia state.
As for Greece that is a seperate issue and nothing to do with accusations of instability by the West or Russia, it was to do with the Euro and Eurozone, something Britain was never part of.
Last edited by Brave New World; 03-02-2017 at 06:41 AM..
Describe these ideological and strategic differences.
Which allies have asked us to choose between them & Russia?
------
Reality - The rest of the world wants the worlds two largest, by far, nuclear powers to get along. They combined have the power to destroy the world at least 10x. (once would be enough)
Do you really need a primer on our version of Capitalism vs. their version of Communism and how that plays into strategies of each country?
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