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Wonder what the farmers and meatpackers and construction and hospitality industry are gonna do? They current cannot be run without immigrants. They tried this in a state or two (I think Georgia) and they had to rescind it because the farmers were losing millions.
Do any of you think 20 year old white kids are lining up for jobs cutting up hogs on the 3rd shift? How about for cleaning hotel rooms...any of you have daughters or spouses doing this?
How about home care for the suffering and dying. I've rarely seen a "natural born american" sitting by the bedside of cancer patients dying at home.
In any sane or reasonable world, you use LOGIC to determine "what if". So, why is no one addressing the shortage of labor which will certainly be experienced? It may be that some jobs can be filled at $20 an hour or higher - but what will that do to the prices of stuff?
Who do you think were doing meatpacking, construction and hospitality jobs for a fair wage before millions of cheap illegals flooded our border? As for farming only 2% of illegals are doing those jobs and there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign workers. Why didn't the Georgia farmers use those? I'll tell you why, greed, simple greed and it bit them in the butt.
Why would you just mention white kids? Racist, much? It's mostly adults that do those jobs not kids anyway. Americans have always cleaned hotel rooms for a fair wage also. Americans have always worked with the elderly also before cheap, illegals took those jobs. I suggest you educate yourself on this issue and learn some respect for our immigration laws and why they are in place.
The states I mentioned have very diverse populations.....
Why not address the actual subject? Why are residents of New England and other areas LESS fearful and therefore less interested in living in gated communities?
This is the opposite of what the OP claims.
So the OP, as usual, is wrong. In a more general sense, conservatives are afraid of mixing it up with others not of their socioeconomic means..and also fearful of the boogeyman (current a muslim, formerly jews, catholics, blacks, etc.) hiding under their beds.
It's alright to be scared. But real adults grow out of that stage.
What does fear have to do with wanting our immigration laws respected and enforced and building a wall?It's about our immigration laws and security as a nation. If there were any fear involved it certainly wouldn't be irrational fear. I can't speak for New England and what communities they choose to live in.
So rich Democrats just love living in communities that are not of the same socioeconomic means as they are? Now you're just being ridiculous. No one is fearful of peaceful Muslims, Jews, Catholics or non-getto Blacks either. Your attempt to demonize conservatives with lies is duly noted.
Millions of illegals have managed to breach our border and thousands are crossing each day. I can't have a serious discussion with anyone who calls them "undocumented immigrants" either as there is no such term in our immigration laws and it tells me where they stand on this issue.
Well, I can't have a serious discussion with anyone who claims that "thousands" are crossing each day. A total of 170,000 people entered the United States illegally in 2015, according to Homeland Security. I already provided a source in my earlier post. Using the 2015 figure of 170,000, that's an average of 465, and that number continues to drop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Doesn't matter if fewer Mexicans or anyone else are crossing our border today they are still coming and it needs to be stopped.
I never said I supported illegal immigration. We were discussing a border wall at the Mexican border.
Well, I can't have a serious discussion with anyone who claims that "thousands" are crossing each day. A total of 170,000 people entered the United States illegally in 2015, according to Homeland Security. I already provided a source in my earlier post. Using the 2015 figure of 170,000, that's an average of 465, and that number continues to drop.
I never said I supported illegal immigration. We were discussing a border wall at the Mexican border.
If you don't support illegal immigration then why don't you support a border wall that is a deterrant and helps the Border Patrol immensely? Please don't come back arguing the costs or the effectiveness either as I have debunked both of those excuses already.
If you don't support illegal immigration then why don't you support a border wall that is a deterrant and helps the Border Patrol immensely? Please don't come back arguing the costs or the effectiveness either as I have debunked both of those excuses already.
Your idea of "debunking" is based on false information. You apparently did not read the link I posted from an Arizona newspaper. Others have posted links to opinions by experts on border patrol, including border agents whose job it is to protect the border. Many say a wall will block a clear view of the other side and a fence along with the use of drones, blimps and tower-mounted cameras is not only cost effective, but more efficient.
As I already posted, most the so-called Trump wall will be an expansion of the metal fencing we already have in place. I already quoted directly from the Secretary of Homeland Security. If that isn't good enough, then I guess we have nothing left to discuss.
There is no other possible explanation why anyone would oppose the wall when it has been proven to be effective where the double and triple layered walls have already been erected (with links provided) and illegals costing us $113 billion a year vs a $25 billion wall. Of course we should stop Cubans from coming here and guard our ports, track visa over stayers and end outsourcing and insourcing which is also depleting American job opportunities. No one has said otherwise. You're just deflecting now. Why can't we do it all? Where's the simple minded solution? Your attitude is that if we can't stop illegal immigration and the drug cartels 100% then the wall is useless. That's ludicrous!
No, sorry but your logic is myopic. You're focused on a wall and not seeing the whole picture. Illegal immigrants come from all over the globe. I know for a fact that there are people from India here illegally. My friends sister is a Canadian citizen and Filipino, yet she over stayed her visa and lived here illegally. Ever go to China Town? How many of them do you think are illegal? How many Cubans and people from all over the Caribbean? How are you going to build a wall for that? Do you want to focus on one country and spend billions to stop them? I'll never agree that that's the right way to spend tax dollars. Fences only deter honest people. It's like saying lets put locks on our doors to keep the burglar's out. Are there there still home invasions with locked doors? Of course. Spending billions on a wall is not working smarter. It's like putting a very expensive band aid on a cut artery. It's as if Trump just wants to fulfill another one of his campaign promises without putting any thought into it. Stupid is as stupid does? Yes Forest.
I'm certainly not pro-illegal. With that said, alot of politicians on many different sides of the political spectrum are responsible for this. Both Democratic and Republican Presidents have been soft on illegals.
No, sorry but your logic is myopic. You're focused on a wall and not seeing the whole picture. Illegal immigrants come from all over the globe. I know for a fact that there are people from India here illegally. My friends sister is a Canadian citizen and Filipino, yet she over stayed her visa and lived here illegally. Ever go to China Town? How many of them do you think are illegal? How many Cubans and people from all over the Caribbean? How are you going to build a wall for that? Do you want to focus on one country and spend billions to stop them? I'll never agree that that's the right way to spend tax dollars. Fences only deter honest people. It's like saying lets put locks on our doors to keep the burglar's out. Are there there still home invasions with locked doors? Of course. Spending billions on a wall is not working smarter. It's like putting a very expensive band aid on a cut artery. It's as if Trump just wants to fulfill another one of his campaign promises without putting any thought into it. Stupid is as stupid does? Yes Forest.
Fences haven't deterred Haitians from coming to the USA illegally.
Your idea of "debunking" is based on false information. You apparently did not read the link I posted from an Arizona newspaper. Others have posted links to opinions by experts on border patrol, including border agents whose job it is to protect the border. Many say a wall will block a clear view of the other side and a fence along with the use of drones, blimps and tower-mounted cameras is not only cost effective, but more efficient.
As I already posted, most the so-called Trump wall will be an expansion of the metal fencing we already have in place. I already quoted directly from the Secretary of Homeland Security. If that isn't good enough, then I guess we have nothing left to discuss.
False information? Sure to your biased view it is. It doesn't have to be a solid wall. The walls on our southern border that I posted links about weren't solid walls they were see thru double and triple layered walls. We tried virtual walls awhile back and they were defective and didn't work. The program was scrapped. Yes, since I already proved to you where the double and triple layered walls are in place they have been very effective and the costs of the wall vs what illegal immigrants cost us per year and you still remain in denial, you're right we have nothing left to discuss.
Here is a simple plan. Punish businesses that hire illegals. Don't let illegals used services like schools and welfare. Enforce immigration laws we already have.
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