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You die waiting in line for treatment in the countries you named. Why should a wealthy, responsible person who saved money for to protect themselves have to wait in line behind a poor person who didn't.
Dems had the chance in '09, what happened?
They did whatever they wanted to anyway above the protestations of most Americans.
What happened was they started with pushing healthcare forward for the first time in decades - in the process 20 million additional Americans were insured and rates stabilized. Infant mortality went down and many other indicators improved.
They didn't "do whatever they wanted". As you will know they have to compromise incredibly to even get it through.
Protestations? Another lie. If you keep repeating it you believe it. I followed the ACA polls since day one and it went something like this.
35% in favor
35% against
30% WANTED SOMETHING BETTER - closer to universal coverage.....
So, add together the 30 and 35% and you see that most Americans wanted Obamacare or better.
Of course, I don't expect most Republicans to understand a complex subject like that. Even Trump admitted it was too complicated for his little head.
As to Republicans, we know exactly what they want.
1. Let 'em die
2. Charge 'em more and drop more people from having coverage.
What makes the US different, that would make such system a disaster?
Nothing, other than opposition to it.
Way too many people in the US oppose things that would make their lives better, like universal health care, mandatory paid vacation and sick time, etc., because they are under the mistaken impression that rejecting them is "exceptional" and somehow makes them more free than all those poor, oppressed suckers north of the border and in Europe. They fear becoming slaves to big government, but hand over their lives to banks and bosses without a whimper.
Not sure this should be a dealbreaker, but logistically, if one examines the countries which have universal health care and/or single payer and/or public option (these countries also allow their citizens to buy supplemental health plans to pick up the bells & whistles) - is that their populations are a fraction of ours.
Switzerland - 8 million people - 2% of the US
Australia - 24 million - 7% of the US
Canada - 30 million - 9% of the US
United Kingdom - 65 million - 20% of the US
Germany - 80 million - 24% of the US
Japan - 127 million - 38% of the US
United States - 330 million (at least)
Other than the US, the foregoing countries are much more homogeneous in health issues and don't have huge pockets of poverty, obesity, and ill health generally.
Otoh, in the US, the GOP red states in particular have high rates of poverty and corresponding ill health. The more prosperous blue states have been supporting the backward red states for a long time now.
In a perfect world, universal health care should be a state issue - which, to some degree, it already is via Medicaid. But, the regressive red states will never provide the benefits they should. Thus, we need national oversight.
And, then, of course, overriding all of this are the huge corporate profits and gouging now embedded in our current system.
All that said, I'm a proponent of single-payer and/or public option, or a hybrid - or anything similar.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 03-25-2017 at 08:53 PM..
You die waiting in line for treatment in the countries you named. Why should a wealthy, responsible person who saved money for to protect themselves have to wait in line behind a poor person who didn't.
Why do you care? You're not rich
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011
1. Too many freeloaders who pay nothing and expect others to pay.
2. Fraud. It already consumes a large portion of medicare funding.
1. So fix it
2. Talking point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64
Nothing, other than opposition to it.
Way too many people in the US oppose things that would make their lives better, like universal health care, mandatory paid vacation and sick time, etc., because they are under the mistaken impression that rejecting them is "exceptional" and somehow makes them more free than all those poor, oppressed suckers north of the border and in Europe. They fear becoming slaves to big government, but hand over their lives to banks and bosses without a whimper.
That's "freedumb" in a nutshell. Awesome Australian comedian coined it, and it should be used when talking about anything along the lines of, "If I want to live next to a radioactive dumping site, I should have the freedom to do so!"
No. The only opposition is coming from Red State Democrats (who got voted out anyway, ironically), and neo-Confederates in the GOP (overwhelming majority of the GOP)
Nancy Pelosi is opposed to any tax increases on her base.
You die waiting in line for treatment in the countries you named. Why should a wealthy, responsible person who saved money for to protect themselves have to wait in line behind a poor person who didn't.
They are both wealthy nations.
Why don't we use REAL measurements to compare instead of "I heard this"???
Let's start with the two most important indications of public health.
1. Life Span
Both live longer than we do
2 Infant Mortality
Very similar (depends on age you use to define it)...
Let's throw in a 3rd one.....
Suicide Rates
US is a good bit higher than both......
-----------------------------------------
Summary. I say your premise is false. Only by measuring tens of millions of people over time can you accurately judge the public health of a nation. We are paying the most...and getting less....almost any way you look at it.
USA Is a Capitalist country. You either are onboard or not. Money talks, BS whining walks. We arent socilaists, full blown etc or a democracy. Constitutional Republic thats runs on making money. So, we wont do single layef, no money in it
They don't want to do what makes sense, which is medicare for everyone because they are beholden to Wall Street and the donor class. Consider these figures:
30% of all healthcare dollars are spent on administrative overhead due to insurance.
8% is doctors salaries / paychecks. We pay the insurance companies three times what we pay the guys who are providing our care.
16% was on drugs, so we pay insurance almost double what we pay for our medications ( and those drug companies are making a fat profit as well)
What value do the insurance companies add to patient care?
I'm going to start a thread on this with more figures, but check this out: United Healthcare had 46.49 Billion dollars in revenue last year. 7.24 billion was profit. The rest was salaries and other overhead.
And this is why we don't have national healthcare.
Socialized healthcare is for socialists. Let's not beat around the bush. Healthcare, like any other service is for profit.
That's what irks you.
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