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As you all know, this book caused riots recently, because liberal students did not want the author to speak at their college. His ideas are considered racist and hateful.
It bothered me, a lot, that freedom of speech is being suppressed at colleges these days. Ann Coulter is another recent example.
On the other hand, I think there are some damn stupid ideas in The Bell Curve. People should of course be free to express and discuss stupid ideas if they want.
The subject is difficult because there are obvious differences between races, and between males and females. It is easy to draw misleading conclusions from the data.
Here is one example of a stupid Bell Curve idea:
The authors say that women lack the kind of abstract reasoning abilities needed to be a great mathematician. Their evidence for the claim is that almost all of the great mathematicians have been men.
Ok, true. But think about that for a second. Almost all the great fashion designers have also been men. Does that mean women lack the sense of style and color needed to be a great designer?
I could find many more examples that illustrate how careless the Bell Curve reasoning tends to be.
No, I didn't read the book, just read articles about it. Reading some more right now.
I personally do not think intelligence is mostly inherited. I also don't think anyone has a good definition of intelligence.
The students, And I, are not fond of people like this. Its a mixture of science and hatred. They come at it with a destination in mind, then find justifications.
But. If you suppress their speech they will suppress yours. I approve of non violent demonstrations. I don't approve of silencing them. If you don't like what they have to say you know what you could do that would be even better?
Have a speech at your college the next day title "Why X is wrong/racist/ etc". Fight their speech with yours. Its why I have never been to a protest, but I have written extensively on politics here and elsewhere.
If The Bell Curve actually made valid scientific points, then it should be considered. If it does not make valid scientific points, then it should be debated.
The violent protests are more likely to convince people the Bell Curve theory is correct.
I personally think eugenics is garbage. Not just because it is a hateful theory that caused millions of murders. If it seemed true, we would just have to get used to it. But the reason it's garbage is because it does not follow valid scientific reasoning.
The students, And I, are not fond of people like this. Its a mixture of science and hatred. They come at it with a destination in mind, then find justifications.
But. If you suppress their speech they will suppress yours. I approve of non violent demonstrations. I don't approve of silencing them. If you don't like what they have to say you know what you could do that would be even better?
Have a speech at your college the next day title "Why X is wrong/racist/ etc". Fight their speech with yours. Its why I have never been to a protest, but I have written extensively on politics here and elsewhere.
Even though you are a dishonest poster... every now and again you do come up with a gem or two.
Even though you are a dishonest poster... every now and again you do come up with a gem or two.
Kudos for the above.
Same to you buddy
Seriously, I know folks dont like what I say here sometimes because it disagrees with them, but I do my best to be honest. If you can prove me wrong, I will even admit it. Thats VERY rare for the people I debate with to do, WAY too many just slink off and repeat the same nonsense later. And when Im not on my cell I take the time often to link to facts.
So before attacking the messenger like you just did while agreeing with me, read my messages, and attack the facts. If you can beat me with facts, I will truly enjoy it. Its why I am here.
There does appear to be some potentially interesting science. You should consider listening to the Sam Harris interview. I must say I didn't detect hatred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
I don't approve of silencing them.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Have a speech at your college the next day title "Why X is wrong/racist/ etc".
Yes, but...
If your speech the next day is just going to involve trying to discredit the person, rather than refuting the evidence presented, then why bother? If you're just going to deal in tautology the next day ("this is racist because it's racist and bad because it's bad"), then why bother? If the argument the next day is going to be more about not liking certain things pointed out and why people shouldn't critically consider them and should ignore what was said, and less about actually presenting clear evidence and salient arguments to the contrary, then why bother?
As you all know, this book caused riots recently, because liberal students did not want the author to speak at their college. His ideas are considered racist and hateful.
It bothered me, a lot, that freedom of speech is being suppressed at colleges these days. Ann Coulter is another recent example.
On the other hand, I think there are some damn stupid ideas in The Bell Curve. People should of course be free to express and discuss stupid ideas if they want.
The subject is difficult because there are obvious differences between races, and between males and females. It is easy to draw misleading conclusions from the data.
Here is one example of a stupid Bell Curve idea:
The authors say that women lack the kind of abstract reasoning abilities needed to be a great mathematician. Their evidence for the claim is that almost all of the great mathematicians have been men.
Ok, true. But think about that for a second. Almost all the great fashion designers have also been men. Does that mean women lack the sense of style and color needed to be a great designer?
I could find many more examples that illustrate how careless the Bell Curve reasoning tends to be.
No, I didn't read the book, just read articles about it. Reading some more right now.
I personally do not think intelligence is mostly inherited. I also don't think anyone has a good definition of intelligence.
It does sound like an interesting read, and I have no doubt that there may be some validity. There will also be obvious societal barriers that can effect the outcomes.
The part I highlighted made me laugh.
I have a femaie cousin who is the head of a math department at a small college in Georgetown Kentucky.
I have two other female cousins who are cancer researchers at Ohio State University. While not math, as the highlighted area states, I would think that advance chemistry and biology degrees would require similar reasoning skills.
I read The Bell Curve about a thousand years ago. He was spot on, as I recall.
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