Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
hmm, Ukraine is an independent nation your anecdote about Texas does not excuse an illegal invasion of a independent nation. We get it, you love Trump and want to back him up, but you do not need to embrace Putin and his murderous ways to do that.
Yes it is!! Putin arranged for one of his henchmen to become the leader of Ukraine and guess what> the citenry became aware of the corruptness and he fled back into Putin's arms and protection.. Manafort ( Trump's Campaign Manager made sure he got concessions towards Russia put into the Platform) then forced to leave.. NOW exposed for collusion with Russian leadership who will likely be indicted down the road!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760
Nonsense. Ukraine is an independent nation today because Russia allowed it to be. Previously, it was part of Russia for hundreds of years except a little blip in the early 1900s.
I fail to see what this has to do with Trump. Russian and Ukraine history has nothing to do with Trump.
What a bunch of malarky!! You have zero Historical facts to even suggest RUSSIA Didn't interfere.. and this has nothing to do with Trump ( directly and will agree with that).. BUT Trump is trying to cater to Putin and undo the punishments for interfering in Ukraine etc etc.
Well, history - all history - certainly does have plenty to do with current affairs, but I won't argue that one with you, except to say that I think those who claim otherwise are being deliberately short-sighted. Doomed to repeat it and all that...
However...Ukraine's history long predates that of Russia. Kiev/Kyiv was around in the ninth century. Of course, Russia claims this history for herself - but Ukrainians will tell you another - the true - story.
Yes it does, it's a HISTORIC FACT))))
"Moscow" originally used to be a weekend retreat for one of the prominent Kievan princes. ))) With other words, it used to be PART of what's now known as "Ukraine" ("Ukraine" means the "outskirts" in Russian, because the future capital ( and center of economy) of the Slavic state moved eastward, living the old capital (Kiev) on the "outskirts."
That's history of "Russia" and her origins for you, no matter what fairy-tales Ukrainians are trying to invent now.
You do realize that Ukraine is the largest country in Europe, and is strategically positioned geographically, don't you? Unlike Russia, Ukraine is also a democracy.
If you respect Democracy so much, then why not respect the Democratically elected President? We staged a coup d'etat in Ukraine to steal Russia's gas/oil resources. It'd be like Russia staging a coup in Mexico to cut off our access to Mexican gas/oil.
Notice that as soon as the coup was over Joe Biden immediately flew to Ukraine to give the largest gas/oil company Burisma a lecture about integrity & transparency, then magically his son Hunter Biden was named to Burisma's Board of Directors 30 days later. Oh, John Kerry's son's best friend was also named to the Burisma BOD that week as well. You know, to show them how integrity & transparency work.
Sounds like a good thing to do especially for trouble makers like we have here. I am no big fan of democracy its mob rule and a sad state of doing things. I much prefer a strong leader with a strong leader who is well loved by his people like Putin and like President Trump is. If killing people is a sign of something other than a democracy then I guess under the Clinton administration we weren't much of a democracy. WAY to many coincidences and "suicides" under their watch.
The people of Crimea voted,its not up to the US or anyone else to LIKE the results of the election,just like we have people here who aren't happen and are causing dissent and chaos and trying to harm elected officials and calling for the assassination of the President of the US. Real Americans don't stick their nose in other countries business just like I am doing right now. Its none of my business what Russia and Ukraine do. Its time for putting America first NOT last. I am also NOT a republican this was the first time I voted for the GOP in a national election and after 2020 probably the last. We aren't going to agree but that's cool. I will always stand by the notion we have MANY MANY issues to worry about here and have no need or reason to be interfering in international problems.
You clearly have no understanding of what democracy is. It is alarming that you term yourself a "populist", yet would support killing those with whom you disagree politically, and that you would prefer a murderous dictator like Putin and view him as a "strong leader".
Did you ever study American history, world history, British history, ancient history, particularly that of ancient Greece and Rome, and/or American government or civics? Have you read our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United State? What do you know about the Magna Carta? What do you know about the deep roots of our form of government? It didn't just spring full-blown from the brow of Thomas Jefferson on July 4, 1776, you know.
Ever hear of Thomas Paine? Ever read Benjamin Franklin? John Adams? Abigail Adams? George Washington? Thomas Jefferson? How about Patrick Henry?
I am paraphrasing now, but those who would sell our freedom for safety deserve neither. Please educate yourself. Talk to some WWII vets, if you can find them. Read at what cost our American democracy was created and preserved.
Sometimes to be first - shoot, often to be first - it is necessary to lend a hand to friends and to slap down bullies. Simple as that. A little thing called self-respect comes into it, too. If you want "to be first", you have to earn it and cravenly turning away to preserve the self while others suffer - is not democratic, American, Christian, adult, patriotic, or just.
It's not civilized.
"Strong leader", indeed. You'd sell your birthright for a mess of pottage, from the sounds of you.
If you respect Democracy so much, then why not respect the Democratically elected President? We staged a coup d'etat in Ukraine to steal Russia's gas/oil resources. It'd be like Russia staging a coup in Mexico to cut off our access to Mexican gas/oil.
Notice that as soon as the coup was over Joe Biden immediately flew to Ukraine to give the largest gas/oil company Burisma a lecture about integrity & transparency, then magically his son Hunter Biden was named to Burisma's Board of Directors 30 days later. Oh, John Kerry's son's best friend was also named to the Burisma BOD that week as well. You know, to show them how integrity & transparency work.
Yanukovich? That craven coward who ran away to Russia at the first opportunity, rather than address the concerns of his people? Yes, he was president of Ukraine - why didn't he stick around and do his duty, instead of running away? No one ousted him - he was not impeached or imprisoned. He ran. Straight to the loving arms of Vladimir Putin.
If you respect Democracy so much, then why not respect the Democratically elected President? We staged a coup d'etat in Ukraine to steal Russia's gas/oil resources. It'd be like Russia staging a coup in Mexico to cut off our access to Mexican gas/oil.
Notice that as soon as the coup was over Joe Biden immediately flew to Ukraine to give the largest gas/oil company Burisma a lecture about integrity & transparency, then magically his son Hunter Biden was named to Burisma's Board of Directors 30 days later. Oh, John Kerry's son's best friend was also named to the Burisma BOD that week as well. You know, to show them how integrity & transparency work.
Here's alternative conjecture. Yanukovych was a Russian puppet. The Ukraine-Russian action plan in which Russia would purchase $15 Billion of Ukrainian Eurobonds and lower the cost for natural gas imported from Russia as well as entry into the Eurasian Customs Union was conditional that he reject the EU association agreement in favor of closer ties to Moscow. Yanukovych relented and civil unrest ensued. Given that a $2 Billion dollar loan was being withheld by Moscow until the protests were "crushed", a violent suppression of the unrest commenced. Protesters are murdered. The loan is given. The revolution grows. Yanukovych is ousted and finds safety in Russia.
Angered that he no longer controls Ukraine and concerned about the inevitable closer ties that will develop between Ukraine and the west (the halting of payments to Gazprom, possible NATO alliance, and most importantly the termination of the leases to Crimean ports for the Black Sea fleet), Putin instructs his soldiers in Crimea to initiate an armed, clandestine takeover of the region. The insurrection is successful. Under the barrel of AK47s, the Crimean parliament votes to hold a referendum. The referendum is held and monitored by up to 135 Moscow-picked international observers with ties to organizations such as the Eurasion Observatory for Democracy and Elections (google it). The referendum is successful. Soon after, Russia formally admits Crimea into its union. Crimea is annexed...as are the Sevastopol ports and the oil.
Not sure how the Clintons could have screwed Putin over back in the 90s, when he became president of Russia in 2012.
I mean, I know it's a different world over there - but does time pass all that differently??
I never said that "Clintons screwed Putin over," they screwed Russians, as in *Russian people* you know, backing up their puppet ( then president of Russia,) while he was bombing his own parliament. ( That's "democracy" for you, innit?) It's when he handed all the power now concentrated in his hands to PUTIN, the American democrats didn't like it all that much. Putin was not that convenient puppet that their darling Yeltsin used to be.
Yes it is!! Putin arranged for one of his henchmen to become the leader of Ukraine and guess what> the citenry became aware of the corruptness and he fled back into Putin's arms and protection.. Manafort ( Trump's Campaign Manager made sure he got concessions towards Russia put into the Platform) then forced to leave.. NOW exposed for collusion with Russian leadership who will likely be indicted down the road!!
What a bunch of malarky!! You have zero Historical facts to even suggest RUSSIA Didn't interfere.. and this has nothing to do with Trump ( directly and will agree with that).. BUT Trump is trying to cater to Putin and undo the punishments for interfering in Ukraine etc etc.
Moderator cut: off topic
Question; how exactly did Putin arrange "one of his henchman" to become the leader of Ukraine?
Didn't he become a "leader" as the direct results of elections, that were deemed "legal and democratic" by the Western observers?
And while we are at that, what happened to "one of American henchmen" that became "the leader of Ukraine" before that? Wasn't he as corrupt as Yanukovitch and hence lost him during the next elections?
If you respect Democracy so much, then why not respect the Democratically elected President? We staged a coup d'etat in Ukraine to steal Russia's gas/oil resources. It'd be like Russia staging a coup in Mexico to cut off our access to Mexican gas/oil.
Notice that as soon as the coup was over Joe Biden immediately flew to Ukraine to give the largest gas/oil company Burisma a lecture about integrity & transparency, then magically his son Hunter Biden was named to Burisma's Board of Directors 30 days later. Oh, John Kerry's son's best friend was also named to the Burisma BOD that week as well. You know, to show them how integrity & transparency work.
How does that make it OUR problem? Its not. Let Europe handle it. You can claim Russia isn't a democracy all you want but last time I looked Russia ELECTS their president. Over half the people here hate Russia because of this fantasy about election meddling etc its not a sane healthy obsession either.
Another staunch defender of the Kremlin who just signed up for C-D.
Now isn't that interesting?
Americans don't hate Russians. It's Putin they despise, not Russians.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
