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What is a living wage? How much??? You do know that ENTRY level jobs are not intended to support families, but as a stepping stone to better jobs? Right?
According to who?
There was a time in the country when you could work in the service sector and live a pretty decent life. Why did that change? Have you ever asked yourself that?
Until Reagan, and the beginning of the theft of America's wealth by the corporate sector, followed by the offshoring of American jobs, American business had no problem paying a living wage; that, in fact, is how the American middle class was built.
I agree , but it started much earlier than Reagan's era.
Those same people on the left that might have said "If you can't pay a living wage you shouldn't be in business" are probably the same ones that screamed "protectionism" when many of us chastised offshoring due to our companies not being able to compete with slave labor. You can't have your cake and eat it too. They are reaping what they sowed...actually we all are.
My first jobs back in the 60's-70's paid maybe $1.65 an hour. That was no where near a living wage.
I worked all summer just to pay my car insurance.
Considering that minimum wage was increase to $2/hr in 1974, it would have been before that. Which, even based on inflation from 1973, that $1.65/hr would have been equivalent to $9.10 today.
Current federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr.
Ergo, even at $1.65/hr, you were still being paid better than a minimum wage worker today.
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Originally Posted by glamatomic
$1.65/hr in 1965, adjusted for inflation is $12.76 today- which, it could be argued is a living wage for a single person in many areas of the country (exceptions being the coasts, Chicago, etc).
Minimum wage in 1965 was $1.25/hr ($9.67 today). Still a couple of dollars better an hour than it is in most areas.
Yeeeeeep. It's funny when people are like "look at my dollar and some change rate from 40+ years ago" as if it was worth the same dollar-and-change in today's world.
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Originally Posted by glamatomic
Living wage varies by area, certainly.
As for it being a stepping stone, in cases where it is a teenager working their first job at the local grocery store or ice cream parlour, I would agree.
That is why I have stated in the past that a graduated minimum wage system based on age might be beneficial (15-17 at the lowest, 18-21 a bit higher and 21+ higher than that).
As for minimum wage not historically meant to be a living wage, that is a fallacy.
In 1933, Franklin D. Roosevelt stated, “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.â€
Yep. This. After learning a bit about how Australia does their minimum wage, while I wouldn't want ours to be so convoluted, the basic premise of a graduated minimum wage would be a great place to start in moving back to minimum wage being a living wage.
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Originally Posted by GregW
Interesting that most of the posters opposing a minimum wage, let alone a livable wage, seem to be well off enough not to be personally effected, except possibility, have to pay their employees more.
I'm a fervent supporter of raising minimum wage because my base salary is over 6x minimum wage.
It always amazes me when Leftists spout this garbage. There is no comparison of the US and Germany when it comes to manufacturing and exports. Not even close. How many industries have been outsourced or offshored in Germany? Not many. They are Nationalists in that way, you know, the very thing the people on the Left hate. Between comparing the US to Germany here and the US and the Nordic countries with their Socialism really shows how intelligent those on the Left really are. NOT!
Actually, Germany is a socialist democracy. Jobs are not off-shored, and wages and benefits are protected by the government. Germans, and German politicians, understand that the government is supposed to work for the people first, not for corporate markets. That's the whole point of government. As a result, they have a thriving capitalist economy, while Americans sink deeper and deeper into poverty. Go figure.
I always felt a living wage was one where you don't qualify for the dole even if working full time. Some of the biggest industries in America are also the lowest paying like Walmart where the workers make so little they rely on aspects of the dole to get by.
I have a buddy who works at the local Amazon warehouse. He gets food stamps and lives in a section 8 rental house. All of that while Bezos is now the richest man in America.
I always felt a living wage was one where you don't qualify for the dole even if working full time. Some of the biggest industries in America are also the lowest paying like Walmart where the workers make so little they rely on aspects of the dole to get by.
I have a buddy who works at the local Amazon warehouse. He gets food stamps and lives in a section 8 rental house. All of that while Bezos is now the richest man in America.
30-40 years ago there were no big box stores that needed employees. That group of people worked on assy lines, machine shops , tool shops etc... all making livable wages or working their way up to it. Our politicians along with corporations sold us out, and we let them. This is what we are left with.
What is the issue with understanding economic dynamics?
America did not stop producing in America because they can't make a profit in America.. they went to Outsourcing out of pure and basic "greed" and following history, of still looking for slave wage low to no cost labor. Because they wanted to make 300 -3000% profit, and claim high wealth.
But the cost was tremendous to America and the American Nation, it cost us more as a Nation and People to produce offshore.!!!!!!
Because we accumulated broken down infrastructure, diminished school funding, our industrial-economic system crashed due greed chasing outsourcing gaming by the wealthy.
RESULT: Everything in America along with the American People, our standard of quality and maintenance standard of self, home, cities and general infrastructure has suffered; Including our cities filing bankruptcy.
RESULT: that 300-3000% profit that corporate madeand makes = result to cost this Nation 600%-6000%in structural losses to the American stature and standards which is can no longer maintain, instability in education and programs of many sorts that help people and environments of community, business
development and , deterioration of infrastructure, for land movement, air transport, and sea port function, community standards have fallen from one Coast to the Next with only small pockets where some well to do have their enclaves, other system and people living standards have been damaged by those who seek to gain 300-3000% profit ... and their pursuit has left us and strapped us with 20 Trillion in Debt as well, that's how we suffer double or quadruple the loss by what is Outsourcing... 600%-6000%in structural losses is only a part of the overall loss, when you add in lowed quality, inflation and lower volume of what we purchase, and all the things that have declined. A simple peach now, cost us $2.99 a pound... in system where the basic Minimum wage is $7.xx... ((Do you see the idiocy of what greed has done... and we have not stood up to stop it...))
The Greed of America People is what has always been the great detriment unto America.
In the late 1960's we did not owe China any money... Today, we can't even dress ourselves or find shoes to wear without China. We love Cell Phones, but without China we'd not even have one, because American were too greedy to build it here, but for the price they want to sell it to American, they could have made it here, and paid average $20 hr. with benefits and still would have made a healthy profit. The same is true with Tennis shoes and much of the stuff, we pay such prices for, so these companies can gained 300-3000% and pay executives 10's of Millions and up per year..
For the sake of a few gaining more money than they will ever spend, to the point, people claim to forget they have assets of $10's of Millions and every $100 million or so. ( Ask Kushner and the Steven Mnuchin ).
The Wealthy don't care about the damages they do.. they just play the "speculation game of Stock swapping, for the spin of money like they were in a Casino)... unaware of the damage they have done and are doing to the country and its people. They simply "Don't Care"..
We know every company on the market, could not produce and market enough of anything they sell to meet with the stock ticker claim of value. They'd stashed money offshore and hid it every place they can, while they play - "gamble on the fiction" as if its entertainment. They crash companies like its a "Business and Industry Demolition Derby" to see how many can be crashed and how quickly, and who can crash the most and loot them in the process of doing so.
What America needs is a New Program... that Support Business Start Up- and there needs be a clause that any business that grows from this program to be strongly successful, "Can NEVER be traded on the Stock Market". We need to build sustainable stability,..
Here's what we are facing:
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China held $1.3 trillion in U.S. debt in November 2013. The reason China is reducing its holdings is to allow its currency, the yuan, to rise. To do that, China has to loosen its peg to the dollar. That makes the yuan more attractive to forex traders in global markets.
Those who chase greed that has and continues to damage American, are quite foolish.... they have the same greed driven mindset that shipped away industry and set up China to become the Industry Capital of the World, and now they don't know what to do, other than keep gouging Americans, and keep running up debt, because it does not have the Industrial capacity to sustain itself as the model it built when it had industrial capacity, and they are just too ignorant and greed driven to face up to the real truth.
There is "no taking back some industry"... and automation will continue to diminish some types of jobs. But we have greed driven people, unaware to think in terms that rebuild American as the leader in making what serves the future. IF WE WERE SMART... All these wealthy people would be trying to support start up 'on American Soil", reinvigorate the system process of OJT and elevate a wage structure to meet with the people being able to function at the "promoted image of what is America and that includes a rate of pay, so people can purchase what they build and what each other markets to sell". people will pay the cost for US produced "QUALITY" goods, that are "durable", and we can mover our society away from the "mass cheap disposable market".. not only would we help our environment, we'd minimize the waste of raw materials, which in the long term becomes a structured savings. We'd become AGAIN, a nation who build, but also maintain a strong replaceable parts supply system. This in turns creates another area of employment, by having technician who can install replaceable parts. Disposable Goods has not served us or the world very well. We've only multiple the rate of filling up landfills, of having a mass of disposable items where a low % of it is actually, recyclable.. and only in limited locations around the nation.
When people "learn better HOW to complain", then we can get thing moving toward change. But we need to know what we expect and what we want and stand on that. Then the pressure is applied to the wealth to change, because we won't accept what they offer up without them making such changes.
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We must become a nation that can and does produce 40% of what we consume!!! I agree with Trump that we must have Industry, but what I don't agree with is his thought that we can bring back "yesterday's" Industry!! I believe Obama had the better understanding, when he said, we must rebuild from the "Bottom Up", BUT we must do it with "tomorrow industry" that build for the future, and we must do it with a level playing field, which means, culturally with diversity, and economically with focus and interest and devotion to building for the aims of "economic parity" among our people.
That builds "SUSTAINABLE GROWTH" because it build in our ability to circulate our capital in our society the necessary 7 times, before it leaves one areas and goes to another, and based on maintaining at lowest production at least 40% capacity of what we consume, then when we look on a global scale, before our monies go out to foreign imports; then it has sustained and stabilized our system. Then; it what we put out to the world comes from our nation of which then has a solid stature that is better suited for performing on a global stage.
It's not the nature of "protectionism" that Trump promotes, is a methodology of maintaining sustainable composure, that we can be and become an effective global player.
Do you see the idiocy of what greed has done... and we have not stood up to stop it...
We act "dumbfounded as if we are helpless".... We are not Helpless.... (will write on this later)..
Last edited by Chance and Change; 07-28-2017 at 11:57 AM..
When the market set wages the working class was GROSSLY underpaid and when the workers tried to create unions to negotiate they were promptly shut down and had to fight tooth and nail to be heard.
Private sector unions have been legal and existed for many, many decades. However, now they are in great decline. Why?
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