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Qualifications being supposedly equal, why the graduation gap?
Really?
That question is not a little bit petty to you? LOL
I mean... so I already showed you that you were wrong about black students at elite schools having aggresively medicore test scores and dismal graduation rates... so now your argument is a 93% graduation rate is the smoking gun proving raging inferiority?
93%???? vs 98%
a 6% difference that probably represents maybe(?) 30 students over 6 years?
Nobody denies the injustice of the past, but the past is past. Punishing those who were not alive then while rewarding those were not alive then makes no sense.
It's not punishment its making things fair. People have benefitted off the past and things need to be corrected. You see it as "rewarding." You're exactly who I'm talking about thinking that things have been fair. Why are you complaining, you'll gladly tell blacks to just work hard and do it silently. But now that option doesn't apply to you? Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth
You talk about "false sense of superiority" yet AA tells blacks they are inferior and cannot cut it. I do not believe this and neither should you.
Affirmative Action doesn't do that at all. First every race has benefitted from AA, it's not just a black thing. This is fact. Why is it only seen as bad when connected to blacks? Second, affirmative action has more to do with helping create diverse environments and breaking up things like nepotism and good ole boys networks that have been going on for generations in this country. We've seen what America is like when left to the good ole boys. This sense of tyranny when forced into equality wreaks of what the confederates called tyranny when told to give up their slaves. They had a way of life that was maintained through inequality and they had to be forced into doing the right things kicking and screaming. Sorry, but in the interest of fairness, we need to move forward and for some equality may be forced on you and you'll just be on the wrong side of history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth
At the end of the day, why do you believe that blacks cannot achieve without lowering standards?
Why do you think them incapable of success?
The standards are not being lowered, the playing field is just being tilted back to zero. The "standards" as you call them clearly are impacted by other historical factors. Many blacks are succeeding with the current standards anyways. Many whites have only succeeded because of being in a lopsided system for centuries. Again, you've been sold on the idea that things have been fair when they haven't. Why are whites so afraid of following their own advice about bootstrapping and working hard and actually living in a fair system. You want to maintain the tilted playing field and call it fair. At the end of the day, we wouldn't need tilted the playing field so hard if reparations were properly issued back in the day. You can't just expect people that have been dominated and socially engineered to just snap into place in like 2 generations. The ultimate hypocrisy like I said...Whites in America lecturing other people about fairness and working hard, now. LOL
edit: also, if you know about the Benign Neglect Policy during the Civil Rights Era then you'd know that Affirmative Action has always had verbiage in it that would say words like "minority" instead of black, or instead or "black neighborhoods" they would say "urban" or "disenfranchised"...these are the types of loop holes that were added to these things so that many whites and other minorities could still benefit from "handouts".
Nobody denies it comes from a good place and the intent is laudable.
Most of us simply think the beneficiaries can achieve the same without it. We feel that because we know they are not inferior.
You however treat them as inferior.
And quite frankly, you have not explained squat. You change the subject (legacies) and then play the race card ('reasons I won't mention') when you fail to convince.
Nobody is systematically oppressing black people. To pretend otherwise is to be dishonest. If a black kid- or any kid for that matter- cannot get into Cal Berkeley, maybe it is because they don't belong there.
There are... REQUIREMENTS.
Lol. I don't think anyone is inferior. That's all you attempting to twist people's words around, because you have no argument. AA was created to prevent discrimination against women and POC. The only people who treated minorities as inferior were the ones who refused to give qualified ones the same opportunities as their white counterparts. I've even said multiple times that I do not care if AA is dismantled, but you knew that. You're just making crap up in your head and you sound sad..
Yup, I brought up race, because it is. If it wasn't, why haven't any of you addressed the Abby Fisher case?
This all coming from the poster who is selectively responding to my posts, because you're incapable of addressing them. Pretty simple.
I've presented examples, cases and studies, you refuse to read them. Not my concern.
And per your last paragraph, one last time- if that was the case, then why aren't people like Abby Fisher equally mad that white students with worse academic records are getting in over them? If it's all about the "requirements".
And it's never that cut and dry, and getting rid of AA doesn't level any playing field. At all. I cannot believe people out there are that simple-minded to believe that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina
Really?
That question is not a little bit petty to you? LOL
I mean... so I already showed you that you were wrong about black students at elite schools having aggresively medicore test scores and dismal graduation rates... so now your argument is a 93% graduation rate is the smoking gun proving raging inferiority?
93%???? vs 98%
a 6% difference that probably represents maybe(?) 30 students over 6 years?
Wow.
That's why I always tell people just to ignore that poster. No point in wasting your time.
I am simply saying that if you think Legacy Admissions are unfair then you should also think AA admissions are unfair.
That is what was said to me here (not by you). If I dislike AA, then I should dislike Legacy admissions. Well, I do. Consistency demands it.
I wouldn't call that consistency. AA addresses under-representation of a particular group that is disadvantaged. Legacy admissions do not fit that bill.
Really, Legacy Admission is more fair and justifiable than AA especially when you consider wealthier students receive AA too. Wealthy and recent immigrants can and do receive AA. Immigration is the most unfair thing of all.
Not everyone receives AA because not everyone needs it. Legacy Admission is not more fair or justifiable because it isn't based on merit. Further legacy admission is basically AA for whites since for so long they were the only ones permitted to attend most institutions.
Really, Legacy Admission is more fair and justifiable than AA especially when you consider wealthier students receive AA too. Wealthy and recent immigrants can and do receive AA. Immigration is the most unfair thing of all.
I don't agree legacy is at all fair, but I do agree with this bolded statement. That's why I think AA, if any, needs to be about socio-economic background - or background in general - instead of just race. Race is only one dimension. Let's take 2 students who have a 4.2 GPA and the same number of trophies: one is Ben Carson's kid (or any prominent POC you like) and the other is a white kid who's homeless (true story from when I was a student). Which one worked harder to get those achievements? I'd admit both; if I can't, I'd admit the latter.
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