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Old 09-11-2017, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,548 posts, read 913,343 times
Reputation: 1413

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In my case, I stand behind the individual. President Trump. I despise both the Democrat and Republican parties. Once President Trump is no longer on an election ballot, I'll be voting 3rd party no-names again.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:38 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,674,856 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
Trump takes a bashing, and I could say there are so many ways in which he deserves it.

As social media, the internet, regular media all continue to expand their reach it's just easier to see all of the bashing, which in fact has been happening for decades if not centuries. It gets personal, but with our two party system this will always happen where every POTUS will be under attack.
In one sense you are correct.

In another, Trump is very different from any POTUS in the last century. Never has a POTUS has less control of his emotions and statements. This part is not partisan as he attacks the leadership, congress as a whole and many people personally. He seems to have no self control.

This scares a LOT of people - because, at the minimum, you want a steady and measured captain at the helm of the Ship of State.

I suspect if nukes start flying people might feel differently about having an Angry and Uncontrolled POTUS.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:45 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,674,856 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle de Guerra View Post
Yes, I agree that it is fascinating that a guy that is an urban, globalist business elite got elected on a platform of largely rural, non-elite nationalist policies. But those are the policies he has been pursuing..
So....our imports are up, Trump is trying to do away with ANY debt ceiling (means the debt will go way up), there has been no action against China or anyone else (idle threats) and high paying jobs are not coming back to any measurable degree.

By any measurement, he has turned 100% on his promises to not get entangled in those foreign wars (he said it was wrong to do so...yet he is throwing lots of good money and soldiers at it)....

In terms of "justice" his AG has made it clear that the Drug War should be fought harder...this would seem against the interests of the "forgotten man and woman"....who are often substance abusers due to hopelessness.

He didn't make healthcare better - in fact, he is making it worse with inaction.

His signature issue - immigration - he is even waffling on that. Mexico is not paying for The Wall and The Wall as he promised it will never happen. Even after he throws out DACA as Red Meat he tweets the very next day that they have nothing to worry about (meaning they can stay and there will be a path to citizenship...or else that is just more BS?)....

I can't see where his policies follow any particular trend or promise. As with every Republican he wants tax cuts from debt and deficit for the very wealthy. He wants Wall Street regs rolled back.

Those are ANYTHING BUT "non-elite" policies. His policies seem to be what insiders said a long time ago - they are whoever spoke into his ear 3 minutes prior.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:56 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,450,610 times
Reputation: 14266
Not for me with Trump. It goes well beyond conservative vs. liberal. There are conservative presidents I didn't agree with on many things, but I felt they were worthy of basic respect. Pretty much most any other conservative in office now I would have fewer issues with.

My main issue with Trump is him PERSONALLY. I just smell a rat with this guy. His thin skin, his grotesque narcissism, his petulant attacks, his blatant mixing of his business interests with his political office, his willingness to bash the institutions that safeguard our democracy whenever it suits him (press, Justice Dept, elections integrity).

I just think something is seriously off with him personally, doesn't matter if he's a Republican or a Democrat. I think he is utterly lacking in personal integrity, the basic kind you'd expect from any mature adult.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,261,787 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Not for me with Trump. It goes well beyond conservative vs. liberal. There are conservative presidents I didn't agree with on many things, but I felt they were worthy of basic respect. Pretty much most any other conservative in office now I would have fewer issues with.

My main issue with Trump is him PERSONALLY. I just smell a rat with this guy. His thin skin, his grotesque narcissism, his petulant attacks, his blatant mixing of his business interests with his political office, his willingness to bash the institutions that safeguard our democracy whenever it suits him (press, Justice Dept, elections integrity).

I just think something is seriously off with him personally, doesn't matter if he's a Republican or a Democrat. I think he is utterly lacking in personal integrity, the basic kind you'd expect from any mature adult.
^^^^This. And obviously many agree with you or his approvals would not have descended so low and stayed so low.

People like Bannon and his ilk love Trump because he is so very easy to manipulate and control. They are playing the country and using the buffoon in the middle to attempt to achieve their own aims.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:23 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,636,611 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle de Guerra View Post
First of all, Trump isn't a traditionally ideological politician. If he was, he wouldn't have cut a funding deal with the Democrats after 9 months.

Second, the left/right paradigm isn't as useful as it used to be in describing politics. Modern politics is better described by rural/urban, elite/non-elite and globalist/nationalist.

Interestingly, Trump himself is urban and elite, but mostly represents the views of rural, non-elite nationalists.
i would say Trump tapped into to anger and fear felt by many whites. Trump does not represent the views of his followers at all. He is very much an elitist and is actively hurting the very people who voted for him.

but they will not figure it out for a long time yet, they are emotionally invested in their guy. As they see it TRUMP, tells it like it is. TRUMP, says what other fear to. TRUMP, feels their pain, and can break the status quo. Trump will put the "others" back in their boxes and will help elevate "real Americans".

of course they are completely wrong. Trump is simply riding the coattails of 20 years of fox, drudge etc.. they built up the fear, Obama and Hillary and muslims, illegals are the current primary "fears" being sold by religious groups and right wing media.. The cult of trump heavily relies on "bad guys" to blame. without fear there is nothing to hide Trump's failure to come up with any real policy changes outside of killing the structures that drive biillions to our shores but whose destruction can reap a short term gain. the irony is if trump succeeds those who support him lose the most by far. Trump's deregulation has a regressive impact. FCC, FTC FEC EPA are all purposely being destroyed. There is literally no set of circumstance where that is good for the average American. None.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:31 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,636,611 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle de Guerra View Post
Trump's biggest enemies and obstacles have been Republicans. The Democrats have been completely marginalized and are irrelevant to the point that they are impotent o do anything to stop Trump. Trump has been thwarted by establishment Republicans.
you are buying into hype and fake news.

Trump is not being blocked by his party, he is getting in his own way. Instead selling a real plan to repeal and replace, trump simply demanded the GOP "fix it" make "good".

Trump told the public he had a PLAN. Trump told YOU, that he had a plan for healthcare that just needed the Ts crossed and the "i"s dotted. TRump told you it would be great. Trump lied, he had not plan as never presented a plan to the public, or to his party. Trump lied to you and you not only bought the lie but you bought the excuse too. When it became clear the GOP could not "make up" a plan that could deliver what Trump failed too, TRump attacked them and blamed them for not keeping HIS promise. (nobody could have every delivered what trump promised it was always fake)..

but you excuse Trump because you have placed you "Faith" in him. For you to maintain your "faith" you are required to ignore facts.

fact. Trump promised the USA he had a plan for healthcare that was great.

fact Trump has never shown this plan to anyone ever. and was clearly lying.

until you (beagle) can accept that, and accept Trump lied you will be lost to reality and are living in a fantasy world.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:27 AM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,235 posts, read 732,416 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle de Guerra View Post
The Congress being supposedly "entirely right" is not a very helpful description. The Congress is split between factions that represent non-elite, largely rural, nationalists and elite, largely urban, globalists.



Yes, I agree that it is fascinating that a guy that is an urban, globalist business elite got elected on a platform of largely rural, non-elite nationalist policies. But those are the policies he has been pursuing.

Every political party runs on promises that could have been accomplished years ago. Republicans have been running on small government and the war of drugs for decades. They never really make government smaller. The Democrats have run on reducing poverty for at least 50 years, probably more like 80. Poverty is pretty much the same as it ever was.
He's not pursuing them. No one is paying attention. What have the outcomes been? Why do you think the outcomes have been what they are? Seriously think about that one......

He told you he would run on those issues. Did he really mean it? No. He's not a politician. He wanted to get "elected."
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