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Yes the numbers speak for themselves, firearms go up, crimes go down abroad, but in democrat held cities, with strict gun laws the statistics either remain the same or fluctuate slightly less or significantly more...
The numbers of children killed in a school, a gun free zone speak for themselves to the effectiveness of a gun free zone...
Oh good, I remind you of someone.
You don't remind me of anyone. What's that say?
That really is not a very rational position. Do you really think that carrying more than one gun lowers the crime rate? Because that is what you are actually claiming. Yes gun population is up. But actually ownership of guns is going down...
That really is not a very rational position. Do you really think that carrying more than one gun lowers the crime rate? Because that is what you are actually claiming. Yes gun population is up. But actually ownership of guns is going down...
That was based on a phone poll. You really think that people give an honest answer?
It did NOTHING in Australia. The only reason it appears so is because the reports issued by anti-gun groups look only at crime trends since the gun laws there were passed. If one takes that exact same University of Sydney data and includes a decade or so of gun homicides BEFORE the gun laws were passed, one sees the exact same slow, steady decline as after the gun laws. The progun side is wrong about this too. There was no huge increase in gun crime afterwards and there was NO CHANGE in the slow steady decrease that was already occurring. Australia confiscated millions of dollars of private property and accomplished exactly nothing.
Here's Dr. Lott testifying before the Australian senate on this exact topic.
Also, the title of this thread is misleading. Gun violence is not unique to the USA, especially when one looks at the number of privately owned guns here. Have a look at some of the graphical data here since it's a long article. Remember when our "leaders" talk about gun control, they're talking about private ownership only. They want their military, police and security to remain armed to the teeth. That's the foundation for tyranny.
Edit: sheesh, I didn't realize how many pages were already here so I've probably added nothing to what has already been said. I'll probably just sit the rest of this out.
That really is not a very rational position. Do you really think that carrying more than one gun lowers the crime rate? Because that is what you are actually claiming. Yes gun population is up. But actually ownership of guns is going down...
The research from economist John Lott's Crime Prevention Center shows that permit granting has continued to surge under President Trump, dispelling expectations that having a pro-gun chief executive in the White House would lead to a dramatic downturn in applications.
Lott said that 16.36 million Americans have permits, and there were an unprecedented 1.83 million approved last year
Another 14 states have adopted constitutional carry in all or virtually all of their state, meaning that a permit is no longer required. Some people in these states still choose to obtain permits so that they can carry in other states that have reciprocity agreements with their states. However,
because of these constitutional carry states, the nationwide growth in permits does not paint a full picture of the overall increase in concealed carry.
In 2016, women made up 36% of permit holders in the 14 states that provide data by gender. Eight states had data from 2012 to 2016 and they saw a 326% faster increase in permits among women than among men.
Because there are sooooooooo many firearms sitting on shelves with no buyers present to scoop them up... okie dokie
And before the doom and gloom crew come along and claim stand your ground serves as a "license to kill", stand your ground is Defined.
Per state legislature, any threat or proof of, imminent danger to life or property, you do not have a duty to retreat.
It is unlawful to carry a firearm while engaging in criminal enterprise (burglary, arson, murder, drugs, drinking, drinking and driving etc) there is an enhancement for carrying while engaging in criminal activity.
You must have valid reason to believe your life, or someone elses, is in danger or threatened.
Flash your pistol just for fun? Felony menacing.
I know I said I'd probably sit this out but I was reading more. We have to be SOOOO very careful about different state laws. They are definitely not uniform. I attended a class where a Maryland attorney was present who specializes in Firearm laws. Here's a scenario for Maryland. It's late at night, you hear smashing glass outside. You grab a gun and go to investigate. You see someone breaking into your car and you hold the perp at gunpoint and put the fear of God into him. It's quite likely you, the homeowner, will be charged with first degree assault, a felony in Maryland, even though you did not touch the guy, or discharge your firearm.
Maryland also has Castle Doctrine, but it ONLY if you are inside your home and, if you use your firearm, you better be able to prove there was a clear disparity of force against you.
Another example, Blue vs. PG County, an armed security guard at a strip club, paid by the club, is told to go outside to investigate possible sexual activity in the parking lot. While checking cars, a cop pulls into the parking lot on a completely unrelated matter. He sees the man wearing a gun and arrests him for carrying a gun without a permit. (That is legal in Maryland on private property with the owner's permission if he wants "supervisory" employees to be armed in the conduct of business.) After multiple appeals, the security guard lost the case because the court decided that the business conducted by a strip club does not take place in the club's parking lot. This was not statuatory law. This guy got burned with case law. So many of these laws punish the innocent.
Norman vs. Fl (IIRC) man is arrested, charged and convicted of open carry (illegal in FL) because his shirt blew up in the wind and got hung up on the grip of the gun he was legally carrying concealed, exposing it to public view (i.e. open carry). Then there's the woman Christy just recently pardoned in NJ, burned by their silly laws. On and on...but, you get the idea.
I know I said I'd probably sit this out but I was reading more. We have to be SOOOO very careful about different state laws. They are definitely not uniform. I attended a class where a Maryland attorney was present who specializes in Firearm laws. Here's a scenario for Maryland. It's late at night, you hear smashing glass outside. You grab a gun and go to investigate. You see someone breaking into your car and you hold the perp at gunpoint and put the fear of God into him. It's quite likely you, the homeowner, will be charged with first degree assault, a felony in Maryland, even though you did not touch the guy, or discharge your firearm.
Maryland also has Castle Doctrine, but it ONLY if you are inside your home and, if you use your firearm, you better be able to prove there was a clear disparity of force against you.
Another example, Blue vs. PG County, an armed security guard at a strip club, paid by the club, is told to go outside to investigate possible sexual activity in the parking lot. While checking cars, a cop pulls into the parking lot on a completely unrelated matter. He sees the man wearing a gun and arrests him for carrying a gun without a permit. (That is legal in Maryland on private property with the owner's permission if he wants "supervisory" employees to be armed in the conduct of business.) After multiple appeals, the security guard lost the case because the court decided that the business conducted by a strip club does not take place in the club's parking lot. This was not statuatory law. This guy got burned with case law. So many of these laws punish the innocent.
Norman vs. Fl (IIRC) man is arrested, charged and convicted of open carry (illegal in FL) because his shirt blew up in the wind and got hung up on the grip of the gun he was legally carrying concealed, exposing it to public view (i.e. open carry). Then there's the woman Christy just recently pardoned in NJ, burned by their silly laws. On and on...but, you get the idea.
In Missouri, the law states that we can use deadly force if WE deem it necessary to protect ourselves, family, neighbors and/or property. We have no duty to retreat. We have open/concealed carry without a permit. And we have immunity from being sued if we shoot someone when we defend ourselves.
That really is not a very rational position. Do you really think that carrying more than one gun lowers the crime rate? Because that is what you are actually claiming. Yes gun population is up. But actually ownership of guns is going down...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist
That was based on a phone poll. You really think that people give an honest answer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
love the right wing. Any bad news is always defective. While any news they like is good even if from an awful discredited source (See John Lott)
You really think the lies told have changed over the years?
Anyone who is actually involved in the so-called "gun culture" knows that gun ownership is not, in any way, going down. Walk into any shooting range and see how many people are just getting into firearms. At my local range, us old-time shooters are usually outnumbered by the newbies.
Since there is no real way to track gun ownership (thankfully), you are basing your argument on a poll in which people may or may not have answered honestly.
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