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Free Speech means only that the government cannot stop you from speaking your mind, nor can there be any government reprisal for it. It does not mean that anyone else has to listen respectfully to any blather. I have as much right to shout you down as you do to speak.
Individuals and organizations cannot, unless they are government funded, violate the First Amendment. Only the government itself can.
Do you have the right to get someone fired for their speech?
Rights are great and all until they butt up against other rights. I can see limits to the heckler's veto, as it can be incitement to violence (not violence itself), or doxing since it infringes on the right to privacy.
Shouting people down and doxing are bully tactics, and *way* more outre than patiently arguing a point with evidence, no matter how controversial the point is.
What's missing from absolutist defenses of free speech rights in a civil society (as opposed to free speech rights under the government) is that style and content both matter, and both have to be proportional. Shouting at someone who is speaking is disproportionate and bad style. Strawmen arguments and other fallacies in a debate with someone who is trying to play it straight is disproportionate and bad content.
Doxing or otherwise threatening consequences for speech in unrelated parts of a person's life is particularly pernicious because it's a weaponized ad hominem, bad style and bad content to the nth degree.
At the least, keeping things proportional and within some mutually agreed boundaries makes debate *possible*.
Free Speech means only that the government cannot stop you from speaking your mind, nor can there be any government reprisal for it. It does not mean that anyone else has to listen respectfully to any blather. I have as much right to shout you down as you do to speak.
Individuals and organizations cannot, unless they are government funded, violate the First Amendment. Only the government itself can.
Public universities, like Berkeley, can’t bar or make it difficult for certain speakers to speak as they had in the past. That is why the DOJ is currently looking into them, and weighed in on a law suit filed by conservative groups.
Quote:
“This Department of Justice will not stand by idly while public universities violate students’ constitutional rights,” said Rachel Brand, the DOJ’s Associate Attorney General, in the press release announcing the statement.
Even the SCOTUS has ruled there is a limit on free speech. You can yell fire in a crowded theater but there are consequences to it.
They draw the line at “imminent danger”. Clearly, calling out fire in a movie theater will cause panic. People will think they are running for their lives and people may get hurt. Speaking about conservative views, or even racist views does not lead to imminent danger.
They draw the line at “imminent danger”. Clearly, calling out fire in a movie theater will cause panic. People will think they are running for their lives and people may get hurt. Speaking about conservative views, or even racist views does not lead to imminent danger.
There is nothing illegal about yelling fire in a crowded theater. It's a common misnomer. You can get into trouble if something bad then happens but if not, it's nothing more than yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
People supporting the right of all five types of speakers to speak publically tended to be male and white more than female and black or Hispanic, and Jewish far more than Muslim, but by far the strongest correlation was to IQ. 80% of high IQ individuals supported everyone's right to speak, compared to just 47% of average IQ and 23% of low IQ people.
So... if you often feel the urge to get speakers shut down, threads locked, posters banned, etc. you are, in all likelihood, an idiot.
Next we'll have to look at lumps on the head and facial profiles.
Quantifying the unwanted in society is characteristic of despotic regimes who take away individual responsibility, read as freedom, for the good of the community.
Height and weight are other quantifiable characteristics to help sort the chaff from the wheat in societies where everyone is equal, some more than others and no one more than the elite governing class.
There is nothing illegal about yelling fire in a crowded theater. It's a common misnomer. You can get into trouble if something bad then happens but if not, it's nothing more than yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
According to Oliver Wendell Holmes, there is. He is the one who coined it, and he said that no free speech safeguard would cover it.
This was following a Supreme Court case that involved speech that presented a “clear and present danger”.
That doesn't really apply here unless you believe that simply allowing an atheist, communist, homosexual, militarist or racist to speak is like allowing someone to yell "fire".
I think it might because most people don't really understand free speech as defined by the Constitution (that government can't restrict your right). Most people think free speech means that you can say anything to want, anywhere, anytime, to anyone, and there shouldn't be any consequences.
According to Oliver Wendell Holmes, there is. He is the one who coined it, and he said that no free speech safeguard would cover it.
This was following a Supreme Court case that involved speech that presented a “clear and present danger”.
It's Time to Stop Using the 'Fire in a Crowded Theater' Quote
Oliver Wendell Holmes made the analogy during a controversial Supreme Court case that was overturned more than 40 years ago.
But those who quote Holmes might want to actually read the case where the phrase originated before using it as their main defense. If they did, they'd realize it was never binding law, and the underlying case, U.S. v. Schenck, is not only one of the most odious free speech decisions in the Court's history, but was overturned over 40 years ago.
Free Speech means only that the government cannot stop you from speaking your mind, nor can there be any government reprisal for it. It does not mean that anyone else has to listen respectfully to any blather. I have as much right to shout you down as you do to speak.
Individuals and organizations cannot, unless they are government funded, violate the First Amendment. Only the government itself can.
Many institutions, groups, and influential people, not just the government, effect society in regards to expression, making it more free or less free. This thread is not intended to discuss First Amendment rights or who can and cannot violate them in a narrow legal sense. As stated in the first post, it's about whether or not you as an individual believe that everyone, even those you disagree with, should be allowed to speak in public, and the answer from you appears to be a clear "no". Fortunately, you have no power here in this forum to "shout down" anyone, but if you were given moderator status that might change, and freedom of expression here might get a little less free.
Oh boy. You're quoting a so-called white nationalist, Steve Sailer.
Who runs with Jared Taylor, Peter Brimelow and all those other so-called pseudo-scientific charletans who like to cite "research" to make inferences about different ethnic groups.
This sort of name calling, use of scare quotes and tut-tutting over who associates with who is absolutely worthless. Rather than attaching silly labels, why not try to actually understand what people say or write? You're better off doing that, even if your only motivation is to discredit.
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