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Old 12-18-2017, 09:05 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
My state, county and city pay for many of those.

Where do you live that has the federal government paying for your firefighters?
It's still a socialist system even if it's on the state level. Everyone has to pay into the system to fund schools even if they never have a need for them. Everyone has to pay into the system to fund a fire department even if you never use it.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:06 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,737,789 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
so why do people keep saying how other countries are better to live in, then nitpick only the "good" socialist parts without regard to everything that isn't "good" for them?
Perhaps those other, foreign systems are better overall?

And before you say, "Move there", know that I've tried; it's extremely difficult from the US.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:08 AM
 
Location: USA
5,738 posts, read 5,445,071 times
Reputation: 3669
I honestly thought socialism was good when I was younger because everyone called things like funding public transit, higher education, and healthcare Socialism. I know better now, but when you attempt to dismiss popular government programs as socialist you're going to get many people who think socialism is a good thing.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:08 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,621,539 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's still a socialist system even if it's on the state level. Everyone has to pay into the system to fund schools even if they never have a need for them. Everyone has to pay into the system to fund a fire department even if you never use it.
And?

That doesn’t negate the point that many aren’t federal programs.

Additionally, it better to have them locally funded and run.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:09 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
I honestly thought socialism was good when I was younger because everyone called things like funding public transit, higher education, and healthcare Socialism. I know better now, but when you attempt to dismiss popular government programs as socialist you're going to get many people who think socialism is a good thing.
If you like the programs they are not socialist but if you don't, then they are? How is funding public transit not socialist? Many who fund it, never use it.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:10 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
And?

That doesn’t negate the point that many aren’t federal programs.

Additionally, it better to have them locally funded and run.
So Socialism is OK as long as it's on the local level? (And I am going somewhere with this)
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,941,945 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
They want it when someone else is footing the bill. If they have to pay their own way, forget it.
Millennial here I have no problem paying more in taxes since I am doing well for myself. I have no problem doing a little more help everyone out I am not blinded by my own greed.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:13 AM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,544,097 times
Reputation: 15501
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Perhaps those other, foreign systems are better overall?

And before you say, "Move there", know that I've tried; it's extremely difficult from the US.
maybe you aren't successful enough for them to want? the US isn't bad if you have money...

with countries selling visas, how hard is it to immigrate?
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,941,945 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
the US isn't bad if you have money...
Thats the problem with the US its designed on the basis of elitism.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,772 posts, read 3,224,169 times
Reputation: 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Please research the different versions of socialism, paying attention in particular to "Fabian socialism" and terms like permeation, gradual transition, evolutionary socialism, socialism of the elite, using democracy to create socialism, etc.

There is "Nineteen Eighty Four" socialism (which, by your criticisms and spell check requests, you think is the only proper kind), and there is "Brave New World" socialism. The former is the jackbooted "socialism by revolution, maintained by direct force and paranoia" version people associate with the Nazis and Soviet communists, while the latter is "socialism by evolution, addicting people to the own comfort and dependencies, gradually creating a society totally in thrall to government" that resembles most modern welfare states in Europe and the United States, albeit at different stages.

From Huxley's 1962 speech at Berkeley:

There is conjecture about Huxley being an official member of the Fabian Society, but his writings and speeches give us insight to the theory of gradualism and permeation, of evolutionary socialism, where the enslaved love their enslavement. Malcolm X, around the same time, was on TV explaining the house/field negro theory, which fit exactly into Huxley's "malevolent revolution" ideas.

There's more to the socialism discussion than rigid, pedantic comparisons to late 1930s Germany and 1940s Russia. There's a much larger discussion of governments always evolving towards tyranny, and tyranny wearing many different masks.
Your understanding of different types of Socialism is impressive. What you fail to do here is categorize the type of Socialism that is being defined by the billionaires, the right wing media, and the right wing think tanks.

Did you notice that in five subsequent pages of posts no one discusses your post except me. These Republicans believe that FOX news is an adequate substitute for education, science, and economics, and that is dangerous.
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