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What part of "you're paying less now than you would be without Obamacare" are you struggling with?
What part of "there is no way for you to know that" don't you get? There is absolutely no way to know what insurance would have cost either without Obamacare or with another system that may have actually worked. You can make projections based on the situation that existed at the time Obamacare was passed, but you can not guarantee that those projections are accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good
Just because you don't eat what you ordered, doesn't mean you didn't have a say in what's for dinner. Republicans submitted many amendments that were in the final bill.
Who passed Obamacare? Stop trying to blame the Republicans for a law that they didn't vote for. If the Democrats didn't like it as it stood, they could have continued to work on it until they did. Instead, they went right ahead with passing it and then talked it up like a bunch of carnival barkers trying to get us all to buy a ticket to see the world's fattest woman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good
ACA is Affordable for 93% of the population. The issues you're describing only affect 7% of the population and a big part of that 7% is from people who are in states that didn't expand Medicaid. Those are still left out, a lot of that can be solved by increasing the threshold to qualify for subsidies.
The average premium increase is 60%. The average deductible increase is 500%. Do you not understand the definition of average?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good
So you're just admitting you're one of these pie-in-the-sky Republicans who figured that we should do something that's more expensive, but also not pay for it. Why does that not surprise me...
Not a Republican. Not a Democrat. Haven't voted for D or R in more than 20 years. Nice try at a backhanded insult, though. Glad you're consistent.
What I actually am is someone who recognizes that this law is bad for the average American. Yes, it's great for those at the low end of the economic scale - but that comes at a cost to the rest of Americans and results in even more tension between the economic classes. Not surprising, since fomenting strife seems to be the current modus operandi for liberals, but still disappointing that the Dems couldn't come up with a plan that actually helped all Americans rather than a select few.
Oh my god....you're not really getting it, are you?????????
Without the ACA, premiums would have increased by MORE. Let that sink in. Rate of increase has DECREASED.
No, you aren't getting it. There is no way for you to definitively say that premiums would have increase faster without Obamacare than they did with Obamacare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbernard
What the hell planet do some of you live on where you believe insurance premiums would not have increase had it not been for the ACA?????????
What planet do you live on that you don't understand a simple argument? Nobody is saying that premiums wouldn't have increased without Obamacare. The argument is over whether or not Obamacare actually slowed down the rate of premium increase. You claim that it did, but that position cannot be proven.
Even if your argument were valid, the promise of Obamacare was that it would make health care more affordable. It didn't, overall, achieve that.
What part of "there is no way for you to know that" don't you get?
It's called projection, or trending. It's a pattern that has been tried and true for many MANY years.
Insurance premiums have increased at certain range brackets for many many years, with no signs of slowing down.
But, here comes you...and you say "there is no way for you to know that". Let me reverse it on YOU....."there is no way for you to know that insurance would have suddenly stopped increasing premiums without ACA".
My money will be on a pattern that has been tried and true for decades, not some internet dude that doesn't really understand how any of this works.
Oh my god....you're not really getting it, are you?????????
Without the ACA, premiums would have increased by MORE. Let that sink in. Rate of increase has DECREASED.
What the hell planet do some of you live on where you believe insurance premiums would not have increase had it not been for the ACA?????????
Because deductibles offset it. We went from insurance to co-insurance.
So while yes. Premiums did go up 200% and remain there...
YOU LOST 60% COVERAGE AND NOW HAVE A YEARLY 2-5K DOLLAR DEDUCTIBLE IF SINGLE, MARRIED/KIDS 12-20K PER YEAR DEDUCTIBLE
So technically yes. Rates went up 200% and didn't go higher. But instead of low cost co-pays and keeping the doctor you liked... you got 40% of the coverage.
I lost my doctor. I had to drive either to Albany or Poughkeepsie to be seen.
That's gas money. A 1 hour ride either direction.
Supposed to save 2500 bucks LOL my deductible was 2k
I hope the ACA burns. And a law is passed that never again shall the government meddle or mandate anyone to own anything or tax them for choosing not to purchase. To go further. If you wanted more affordable health care you'd have put the screws to the insurance companies. Not the consumers.
And yet... Trump is concerned about making the rich richer...
No, you aren't getting it. There is no way for you to definitively say that premiums would have increase faster without Obamacare than they did with Obamacare.
What planet do you live on that you don't understand a simple argument? Nobody is saying that premiums wouldn't have increased without Obamacare. The argument is over whether or not Obamacare actually slowed down the rate of premium increase. You claim that it did, but that position cannot be proven.
Even if your argument were valid, the promise of Obamacare was that it would make health care more affordable. It didn't, overall, achieve that.
It's called projection, or trending. It's a pattern that has been tried and true for many MANY years.
Insurance premiums have increased at certain range brackets for many many years, with no signs of slowing down.
But, here comes you...and you say "there is no way for you to know that". Let me reverse it on YOU....."there is no way for you to know that insurance would have suddenly stopped increasing premiums without ACA".
My money will be on a pattern that has been tried and true for decades, not some internet dude that doesn't really understand how any of this works.
I know what projections are. I also know that projections can be, and often are, inaccurate.
Nor am I claiming that premiums would have stopped increasing without Obamacare. I'm pointing out that using projections as the basis for an argument about facts is not an acceptable form of debate.
What part of "there is no way for you to know that" don't you get? There is absolutely no way to know what insurance would have cost either without Obamacare or with another system that may have actually worked. You can make projections based on the situation that existed at the time Obamacare was passed, but you can not guarantee that those projections are accurate.
Who passed Obamacare? Stop trying to blame the Republicans for a law that they didn't vote for. If the Democrats didn't like it as it stood, they could have continued to work on it until they did. Instead, they went right ahead with passing it and then talked it up like a bunch of carnival barkers trying to get us all to buy a ticket to see the world's fattest woman.
The average premium increase is 60%. The average deductible increase is 500%. Do you not understand the definition of average?
Not a Republican. Not a Democrat. Haven't voted for D or R in more than 20 years. Nice try at a backhanded insult, though. Glad you're consistent.
What I actually am is someone who recognizes that this law is bad for the average American. Yes, it's great for those at the low end of the economic scale - but that comes at a cost to the rest of Americans and results in even more tension between the economic classes. Not surprising, since fomenting strife seems to be the current modus operandi for liberals, but still disappointing that the Dems couldn't come up with a plan that actually helped all Americans rather than a select few.
Ha... Nice try to move the goal post. Suddenly math and trendlines don't matter. Ok.
Doesn't matter why Democrats didn't ignore all Republican amendments. The fact is they kept Republican suggestions on what the bill should do. That makes it de facto bipartisan. The fact that Republicans didn't vote for the thing they had input on is irrelevant.
So now we can talk about what premiums are now, but not how they were trending? You have a very peculiar thought process. And deductibles are a thing you just have to deal with. You demanded a for-profit solution, so there's the profit. You demanded things that are more expensive, and that's the cost. You act like pointing out you're not a Republican changes the underlying point about you trying to get something more and complaining that there's a cost associated with it.
Because deductibles offset it. We went from insurance to co-insurance.
So while yes. Premiums did go up 200% and remain there...
YOU LOST 60% COVERAGE AND NOW HAVE A YEARLY 2-5K DOLLAR DEDUCTIBLE IF SINGLE, MARRIED/KIDS 12-20K PER YEAR DEDUCTIBLE
So technically yes. Rates went up 200% and didn't go higher. But instead of low cost co-pays and keeping the doctor you liked... you got 40% of the coverage.
I lost my doctor. I had to drive either to Albany or Poughkeepsie to be seen.
That's gas money. A 1 hour ride either direction.
Supposed to save 2500 bucks LOL my deductible was 2k
I hope the ACA burns. And a law is passed that never again shall the government meddle or mandate anyone to own anything or tax them for choosing not to purchase. To go further. If you wanted more affordable health care you'd have put the screws to the insurance companies. Not the consumers.
And yet... Trump is concerned about making the rich richer...
Gotcha.
A 2k deductible amounts to about $166 a month. Imagine if you will, paying $300-%500 a month more without a high deductible plan. And bonus, if you're healthy, you don't pay much of that deductible. win-win if you ask me.
And let me add...these high deductible plans were starting to be the new thing PRIOR to Obama.
Because deductibles offset it. We went from insurance to co-insurance.
So while yes. Premiums did go up 200% and remain there...
YOU LOST 60% COVERAGE AND NOW HAVE A YEARLY 2-5K DOLLAR DEDUCTIBLE IF SINGLE, MARRIED/KIDS 12-20K PER YEAR DEDUCTIBLE
So technically yes. Rates went up 200% and didn't go higher. But instead of low cost co-pays and keeping the doctor you liked... you got 40% of the coverage.
I lost my doctor. I had to drive either to Albany or Poughkeepsie to be seen.
That's gas money. A 1 hour ride either direction.
Supposed to save 2500 bucks LOL my deductible was 2k
I hope the ACA burns. And a law is passed that never again shall the government meddle or mandate anyone to own anything or tax them for choosing not to purchase. To go further. If you wanted more affordable health care you'd have put the screws to the insurance companies. Not the consumers.
And yet... Trump is concerned about making the rich richer...
Gotcha.
Please explain to the class how we lost 60% coverage...
I know what projections are. I also know that projections can be, and often are, inaccurate.
Nor am I claiming that premiums would have stopped increasing without Obamacare. I'm pointing out that using projections as the basis for an argument about facts is not an acceptable form of debate.
Trending actually is an acceptable tool to use when discussing this. Trending is a tool used by most everyone.
Also, a trend that is true for decades, is more reliable....than you just stating your opinion on an internet board.
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