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It’s Not Rocket Science....
• Good: “What’s yours is yours, what’s mine is mine, don’t trespass.”
• Bad: “What’s yours is mine, what’s mine is mine, shut up, sit down, pay and obey.”
• Stupid: “Everything belongs to everyone: take what you need but give us everything you have.”
= = = = =
A REMINDER
Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence (1776) and the republican form of government, governments in the united States of America are instituted to secure Creator endowed rights to life, liberty (natural and personal), absolute ownership of private property, inherent powers, and so forth.
(That is to say: adjudicate disputes, punish criminals, defend against all enemies, foreign or domestic.)
Without consent of the governed, such a government cannot do anything more.
The Supreme Court has held, in Butler v. Perry, 240 U.S. 328 (1916), that the Thirteenth Amendment does not prohibit "enforcement of those duties which individuals owe to the state, such as services in the army, militia, on the jury, etc." In Selective Draft Law Cases, 245 U.S. 366 (1918), the Supreme Court ruled that the military draft was not "involuntary servitude".
(If they’re not involuntary servitude, they MUST be voluntary. How did we volunteer?)
Here's a hint:
“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
- - - George Washington; "Sentiments on a Peace Establishment" in a letter to Alexander Hamilton (2 May 1783); published in The Writings of George Washington (1938), edited by John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 26, p. 289.
[... Every citizen ... owes a portion of his property ... and services in defense ... in the militia ... from 18 to 50 years of age... ]
“The great draft riot in New York City in July 1863 involved Irish immigrants who had been signed up as citizens to swell the vote of the city's Democratic political machine, not realizing it made them liable for the draft.”
Figured it out yet?
Under the republican form of government, the people are sovereigns, with endowed rights. However, they may consent, and thus surrender / waive those rights in exchange for privileges.
For example, volunteering to be a subject citizen imposes mandatory militia duty - which would be a violation of the rights to life and liberty if citizenship was compulsory.
Since no government instituted to secure endowed rights can infringe, impair or deny rights without consent, how did it get the delegated power to impose citizenship, at birth, with all its attendant mandatory civic duties?
The Supreme Court has held, in Butler v. Perry, 240 U.S. 328 (1916), that the Thirteenth Amendment does not prohibit "enforcement of those duties which individuals owe to the state, such as services in the army, militia, on the jury, etc." In Selective Draft Law Cases, 245 U.S. 366 (1918), the Supreme Court ruled that the military draft was not "involuntary servitude".
(If they’re not involuntary servitude, they MUST be voluntary. How did we volunteer?)
Here's a hint:
“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
- - - George Washington; "Sentiments on a Peace Establishment" in a letter to Alexander Hamilton (2 May 1783); published in The Writings of George Washington (1938), edited by John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 26, p. 289.
[... Every citizen ... owes a portion of his property ... and services in defense ... in the militia ... from 18 to 50 years of age... ]
“The great draft riot in New York City in July 1863 involved Irish immigrants who had been signed up as citizens to swell the vote of the city's Democratic political machine, not realizing it made them liable for the draft.”
Figured it out yet?
Under the republican form of government, the people are sovereigns, with endowed rights. However, they may consent, and thus surrender / waive those rights in exchange for privileges.
For example, volunteering to be a subject citizen imposes mandatory militia duty - which would be a violation of the rights to life and liberty if citizenship was compulsory.
Since no government instituted to secure endowed rights can infringe, impair or deny rights without consent, how did it get the delegated power to impose citizenship, at birth, with all its attendant mandatory civic duties?
Ask your public servants to explain THAT to you.
We've been down this road before. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
How so? They have de facto identical social philosophies of radical individualism, social policy being the core of politics and thus the primary identifier of political categories.
Also, are you going to keep people from cooperating by force?
If the people who you don't keep by force from cooperating then conspire to use force on you, how will you stop it?
You cannot without group cooperation, aka a "State".
Ancap isn't about individualistic freedom from coercion because coercion can never be stopped without group force. Its pretty story is vastly different from realistic sociopolitical human behavior and systems. It can't change that.
Instead, its about convincing one group to de-nationalize (individualize) for the benefit of other powerful nationalist group(s) who would then rule them. The same primary aim as communism.
Your philosophy is at least seventeen years too dated to be politically compelling and not conversational noise (reflecting the relative popular political naivete before 9/11, when it was more widely popular, and the increase in popular interest in effective politics after). Which is why your constant nonsense in regard to it is a bit suspicious.
It has no defense, especially when rudimentary real world political behaviors are recognized. There will ever be a world without States, as they are necessary for protection against murder and slavery from other groups. Period. Which is why early communists, as Ancaps do, promised the end of the State. After which they promptly employed a horrific junta who murdered he masses by tens of millions and kept the Russians in a de facto slave state for seventy years.
Telling individuals that using "force" (aka: effective politics) is immoral, without giving them a means to defend themselves politically or physically (which by definition would include employment of an army and a unified political front), is equivalent to telling someone they can't effectively defend themselves against an inevitable attacker. It's your recommendations and propaganda that are immoral and unrealistic.
Its time to drop the fantasies and embrace something more realistic. Failing that, its time to stop gumming up he conversations here with absolute nonsense.
It’s Not Rocket Science....
• Good: “What’s yours is yours, what’s mine is mine, don’t trespass.”
• Bad: “What’s yours is mine, what’s mine is mine, shut up, sit down, pay and obey.”
• Stupid: “Everything belongs to everyone: take what you need but give us everything you have.”
= = = = =
A REMINDER
Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence (1776) and the republican form of government, governments in the united States of America are instituted to secure Creator endowed rights to life, liberty (natural and personal), absolute ownership of private property, inherent powers, and so forth.
(That is to say: adjudicate disputes, punish criminals, defend against all enemies, foreign or domestic.)
Without consent of the governed, such a government cannot do anything more.
Do you know how and when you consented?
Yes, it was required in the 1960's to sign consent to get a drivers license in the state of Colorado.
Don't sign, no license. I didn't like it and thought I was getting cheated but I wanted to drive too.
We've been down this road before. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Also, I have no public servants.
If your location is truly in Leningrad, Russia, I understand.
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