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Old 04-16-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,818,947 times
Reputation: 14116

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I can't buy a war plane or a slave, either, even if I wanted to. Does that make me less free?
Total freedom to do whatever you want has never existed and shouldn't exist. There are always limits imposed by society, laws etc.
Got enough money and you CAN buy a warplane in the USA. It can even have functioning machine guns if you have the right NFA registration. No bombs though.

Slavery is the antithesis to freedom... can't have both in the same place without being a hypocrite and millions of Americans died in the past to prove it. That's a poor example.

Sure there are limits but Europe has long been a place where the people always just bent over and accepted a freedom imbalance in their lives. It was certainly worse in the past but it's still true today... and things are getting worse over there.

I don't think I'd take advice on where the balance point between state vs individual power should be from a continent that has failed so miserably on that point so many times in the past.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,232 posts, read 18,584,601 times
Reputation: 25806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I can't buy a war plane or a slave, either, even if I wanted to. Does that make me less free?
Total freedom to do whatever you want has never existed and shouldn't exist. There are always limits imposed by society, laws etc.
I can buy a war plane. I personally know many that have them. What do planes, and slaves have to do with personal self defense using a firearm?

U.S. gun control laws emanated from Democrats who wanted to keep freed slaves from owning guns after the Civil War. The New York City Sullivan Act of 1911, which bans the carry of hang guns was passed to keep legal immigrants, especially the Irish, from carrying a gun. They were the ones that wouldn't be granted a license to carry.

So you see, traditionally gun laws have been used to deny freedom, and rights. Just because you, and other Europeans have been indoctrinated over they years doesn't make it any less so.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:44 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
There are several freedom indexes, and the US is not even among the top ten, unlike many European countries with strict gun control...
For instance:
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.o...edom-index.pdf

US #17

Freedom through guns is an illusion, especially today, in a world that is much different than 200 years ago, even 50 years ago... Today we have laws and courts that make sure that for instance people are not treated like slaves.
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