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That also doesn't mean we need the state in its current form.
I agree that the government in it's ever increasing form is absolutely an anathema to all that society should be. People need to wake up to it or it will swallow us whole eventually. The fall will be catastrophic.
When a company starts to pollute, it creates an immediate harm and they are punishable.
This simply isn't accurate. A company's environmental decisions can take months or years to impact people, and even once the harm has been done, the burden of proving that harm took place and is the responsibility of the polluter is too expensive for most average people to actually pursue.
Throw in a state legislature or two being bought by the polluters, and now you've got laws that don't even allow you to collect the information needed to sue polluters at all.
Thus this reliance upon punishing polluters in court creates a massive incentive for companies to pollute and then dare people to sue. I haven't seen the libertarians providing much in the way of 'solutions' here, mostly just denying the issue exists.
Which brings us back to the libertarians -- and the fact that when the rubber meets the road, there isn't much difference in a libertarian and a garden-variety big business conservative. They might make different arguments, but you'll end up with similar outcomes.
This simply isn't accurate. A company's environmental decisions can take months or years to impact people, and even once the harm has been done, the burden of proving that harm took place and is the responsibility of the polluter is too expensive for most average people to actually pursue.
Thus this reliance upon punishing polluters in court creates a massive incentive for companies to pollute and then dare people to sue.
This simply isn't accurate.
1. The environment impact can be monitored and detected immediately.
2. Again, such impact does NOT need to actually impact people to create harm. Please re-read my post again.
3. It's the government's job to find and prosecute criminals, not the people to sue in civil court.
4. When business people know they would end up in prison, it'd create massive incentive NOT to pollute.
1. The environment impact can be monitored and detected immediately.
2. Again, such impact does NOT need to actually impact people to create harm. Please re-read my post again.
3. It's the government's job to find and prosecute criminals, not the people to sue in civil court.
4. When business people know they would end up in prison, it'd create massive incentive NOT to pollute.
1. the environmental impact doesn't necessarily occur immediately, also monitoring of every potential environmental problem is not realistic, and requires taxpayer spending (which libertarians want to cut, further compounding the evidence of their apathy)
2. k
3. the government's job is to do what politicians tell it to
4. who went to jail for the BP gulf oil spill? Who went to jail for all these coal ash ponds collapsing?
That also doesn't mean we need the state in its current form.
Functioning societies predate centralized government. Therefore why is the assumption that without centralized government there can be no functional society?
The logical flaw made by all of these fringe (insert prefix)-libertarians is they make an unfounded logical leap that all forms of government are totalitarian 1984-style "statist" juntas. They fail to recognize that civilization requires some boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors, and that there are some forms of government, such as social democracies, that share power, are benign by design, and serve to maximize the individual's freedom within those boundaries of acceptable behavior. There has to be a system of rules and a government to enforce contracts, punish criminality, etc., otherwise you have no civilization at all.
The only proven system that provides freedom and prosperity is the western democratic mixed economy, where government and the private sector both share power. Collectivism is used where it works best while private capitalism is employed where it works best. Pure -ism economies -- e.g., pure communism and pure capitalism -- have been tried and they have both failed.
Private capitalism doesn't 'work'. Well anything can 'work' but it depends upon what your goal is. If it is to maximize profits for a few individuals then sure, it works.
If your saying that it lets workers control their input and receive their output then no it doesn't work. If your talking about creating a society not based on greed and endless growth then sure it 'works'
But I don't support these things. The system we have now is a combined authority by the state and corporations they use to outsource their control. We can have a system of socialist system of society that is based on communal values and helping one another without the state. It has been done and it can be done again .
Also anarcho-syndicalist aren't every one for themselves type libertarians so don't pin that label on me. I only used the term libertarian to point out how the definition has been changed over time.
ps. The nonesense about capitalism being the only system that works is the same things lords use to tell surfs during the feudal era. Whatever system is in place is assumed to be the best.
Functioning societies predate centralized government. Therefore why is the assumption that without centralized government there can be no functional society?
That is what I've been arguing for. de-centralized federations are the way to go.
about 13 minutes long.
Libertarians are personal freedom fundamentalists.
Some libertarians even complain about needing a drivers license.
Yeah, wanting civil liberties is such a horrible concept.
What is the big preoccupation with slandering Libertarians? One big reason I am not a dem or GOP is both sides have reduced the conversation to slinging mud. No discussion of issues or anything intelligent.
There are no elected Libertarians and only a few on a state or local level mostly in New Hampshire. Not a threat to whatever you are worried about.
There are fanatics in all political parties where their devotion to said parties to the level of a religion. No party has that cornered.
I will freely trade you a heart transplant in exchange for a large amount of your money.
I’m an expert at heart transplants. Trust me.
Your point being that only a government can certify that a person is qualified to deliver a good or service, and further that once receiving the stamp of government approval, that person is henceforth infallible?
You really think that membership in a state run guild is more efficient at vetting the qualified producers of goods and services than the Invisible Hand? Really?
Your point being that only a government can certify that a person is qualified to deliver a good or service, and further that once receiving the stamp of government approval, that person is henceforth infallible?
You really think that membership in a state run guild is more efficient at vetting the qualified producers of goods and services than the Invisible Hand? Really?
Ok, fine. The next time you need healthcare, go to your local New Age store. I hear that they can heal most maladies for a fraction of the cost of those corrupt government-approved doctors.
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