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Old 08-28-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,432,565 times
Reputation: 4831

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Currency as a payment so one can receive healthcare is niether necessary nor is it human.

Having to pay for life is one of the great stresses of work that make it seem less like voluntary production and more like slavery.
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Old 08-28-2018, 05:30 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Right, politics are the problem, not the free market.
Both are. Besides, I suppose one can not blame what does not exist nor will ever exist.
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Old 08-28-2018, 05:34 PM
 
9,509 posts, read 4,342,349 times
Reputation: 10585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/st...69466052538368


Just think, Bezos makes many times more than the average worker yet does not produce as much as they do. He should be paid less by the rules of input/output but because he controls the distribution of cash he makes the most.

Corporate CEOs generally lack basic trade skills that are needed to keep a society functioning and moral in nature, instead they are skilled at winning state subsidies, cutting financial costs that don't directly benefit their bottom line, and outsourcing production AND marketing. This is why when Obama or Trump selects one of them to help the US economy, they fail, because they have no real skills.

These concepts are basic yet everyone criticizes Bernie on this one tweet, why?

Because he had the vision and ability to raise capital to create Amazon, something the average Amazon worker isn't capable of. He's created hundreds of thousands of jobs. The average Amazon worker? Zero. How many jobs have you created? Job creation is much, much more important than the ability to shove a product into a box. This seems obvious - why are you confused?
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Old 08-28-2018, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,363,818 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Currency as a payment so one can receive healthcare is niether necessary nor is it human.

Having to pay for life is one of the great stresses of work that make it seem less like voluntary production and more like slavery.
You must compensate someone for their labor or a good they produce if they choose to charge you. Otherwise you have no right to take it from them.
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Old 08-28-2018, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,432,565 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
You must compensate someone for their labor or a good they produce if they choose to charge you. Otherwise you have no right to take it from them.
If someone controls a good, you have no moral or economic right to take it from them.

Now production is rewarded by self definition rather than distribution of wealth that has no direct bearing on production capacity.

Humans, as in the neolithic period, produced what they could based on their own abilities for the people around them and themselves. There was no control over private labor, once you allow currency to control production and ownership of goods, you support the principles of slavery.

But unlike in your system, people are free to produce what they can.
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Old 08-28-2018, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,432,565 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
Because he had the vision and ability to raise capital to create Amazon, something the average Amazon worker isn't capable of. He's created hundreds of thousands of jobs. The average Amazon worker? Zero. How many jobs have you created? Job creation is much, much more important than the ability to shove a product into a box. This seems obvious - why are you confused?
Job creation, I didn't know Bezos created jobs...

oh wait, you mean he decided to allow people to use capital he owned and not send state agents to crush their skulls.
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Old 08-28-2018, 06:54 PM
 
9,509 posts, read 4,342,349 times
Reputation: 10585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Job creation, I didn't know Bezos created jobs...

oh wait, you mean he decided to allow people to use capital he owned and not send state agents to crush their skulls.

Amazon employed 541,900 people as of October 2017. How many people do you employ? Again, not sure why this is so hard to grasp.
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Old 08-28-2018, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,432,565 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
Amazon employed 541,900 people as of October 2017. How many people do you employ? Again, not sure why this is so hard to grasp.
The fundamental economics is what you don't understand. Production should be compensation itself, but rather than allowing free access to production we give capital over to a few private hands who organize labor as they see fit to produce the least and reward them with currency unequivocal to their labor.

If the Bezos of the world didn't exist, those people would have work, instead, they now have to work for people like him and operate based off of his desires.
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Old 08-28-2018, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,363,818 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
If someone controls a good, you have no moral or economic right to take it from them.

Now production is rewarded by self definition rather than distribution of wealth that has no direct bearing on production capacity.

Humans, as in the neolithic period, produced what they could based on their own abilities for the people around them and themselves. There was no control over private labor, once you allow currency to control production and ownership of goods, you support the principles of slavery.

But unlike in your system, people are free to produce what they can.
Private labor isn't controlled in capitalism. It's consensually agreed upon unlike statism (and yes your system is statist).
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Old 08-28-2018, 07:21 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Private labor isn't controlled in capitalism. It's consensually agreed upon unlike statism (and yes your system is statist).
We do not know how it would work under Capitalism as no one employs it so we only have theory.
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