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Old 08-28-2018, 08:01 AM
 
17,401 posts, read 11,978,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
UBI will be an excuse to get rid of all that... probably social security (which will be insolvent in 10-15 years) and Medicare (insolvent in only 7 years) too. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...-2034-trustees. Meanwhile, the population will continue to grow so housing costs will only rise in the long term.

What will happen is that extended families and/or groups of friends will have to live together and share living costs.
Which could happen now.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,771 posts, read 104,756,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
The whole reason why UBI is being kicked around in the first place is because advances in automation tech are predicted to absolutely gut the job market in the near future and the current welfare system isn't gonna cut it.

It isn't going to be a supplemental income for most... it's gonna be their only income. $1000 a month doesn't seem so great in that light.
You are forgetting the population growth has slowed why down, so we will not have the need for many of these jobs and we won't have the young people to fill what jobs we will have. How many do you know, in the age group under 40 who have chosen to have no kids and many have chosen to not even marry. We are not living in the baby boomer generation anymore.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
And how long will that last? I'll tell you how long. Until the lazy breeders start screeching about how UBI isn't enough for their children.
You mean the corporate executives who make money off of other people’s labor.

Yeah, those lazy guys are a parasite on our economy.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,818,947 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Human wants are limitless, so too are jobs to cater to them.
and if you pay folks to do nothing while robbing folks who do something, you will get folks happily doing nothing and fewer people wanting to do something. A UBI scheme will certainly deliver a lazier society and with less job creation than we already have now.
In the end its just another rob and redistribution scheme on a grander scale.
You don't get the world-shaking tech changes coming very soon.

Anybody who's had to supervise employees (especially on the low end of the job market) knows how much of a PITA it can be. Robots don't call in sick, make as many mistakes, steal from their employers, have personal dramas, have laws protecting them, limits to the amount of time they can work, require health insurance, ect, ect.

Once businesses can buy tech that will perform equally to or better than humans at a lower price-point than retaining a human employee it's all over... the businesses that don't adopt these new technologies simply won't be able to compete against the ones that do.

Granted there will still be jobs for humans but they will be far fewer in number and competition for them will be fierce... only the "elite" workers will get them.

Clearly the UBI sales pitch of "freeing people to chase their passions" is just a sales pitch though. The real result will be a neo-feudalist society where the nobles are richer and more powerful than ever and the lazy, dumb, easily manipulable serfs scrape by on a subsistence level stipend with virtually no chance of improving their lot in life.

But UBI is past the "hey, what about this idea?" phase. The Powers that Be have already decided that's how they are gonna do things moving forward...
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:15 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,979,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsthetime View Post
Sounds a lot like our private sector business world. Why is there any incentive to go the extra mile when its management who receives most of the rewards and monetary bonuses from your hard work?
Sounds a lot like something someone would say who has had limited or no real successful experience in the private sector business world.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,818,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
You are forgetting the population growth has slowed why down, so we will not have the need for many of these jobs and we won't have the young people to fill what jobs we will have. How many do you know, in the age group under 40 who have chosen to have no kids and many have chosen to not even marry. We are not living in the baby boomer generation anymore.
Slowed down?!

The world population is projected to top off at about 10 billion people around 2050, meaning we are gonna get 3 more China or India's worth of people worldwide over the next 30 years.

The USA is projected to grow to about 438 million in the same time. 100 million+ or 2 1/2 more California's worth of people in the next 30 years.

Meanwhile, the number of available jobs will plummet, though nobody knows how precipitous the drop will be... only that it's going to move down. You do the math.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:20 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,979,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Slowed down?!

The world population is projected to top off at around 10 billion people around 2050, meaning we are gonna get 3 more China or India's worth of people worldwide over the next 30 years.

The USA is projected to grow to about 438 million in the same time. 100 million+ or 2 1/2 more California's worth of people in the next 30 years.

Meanwhile, the number of available jobs will plummet, though nobody knows how precipitous the drop will be... only that it's going to move down.
Which means nobody actually knows for sure that it will even happen. Its just as likely the # stays at a relative status quo, or goes up. Crystal balls work in both directions if you want them to.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:33 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,979,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsthetime View Post
You would be wrong on that one. I'm a manager and I get tons of bonuses each month for all of the work my employees do. And I'm the one who doesn't even do the work.
Sounds like a pretty miserable place to work. I've been on both sides at different companies and although managers get bigger bonuses (obviously) they are/were also on the hook for distributing evenly to team members based on their performance for the year. More large companies are like this, than the example you laid out.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,818,947 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Which means nobody actually knows for sure that it will even happen. Its just as likely the # stays at a relative status quo, or goes up. Crystal balls work in both directions if you want them to.
Game changing technologies tend to upset the status quo... otherwise we'd have little shops hand-crafting goods all over the place and a healthy horse and wagon industry.

Of course in the great shifts of the past, the old industries were wiped out but new jobs were created in new industries that didn't previously exist and that balanced things out.

This time is different... the new world-changing industry is robots/AI computers to do human jobs and said robots/computers can be made by other robots with only a relatively small number of highly skilled human stiffs to design, direct and maintain them.

You don't need a crystal ball to understand this anymore than you need one to see winter is coming after the leaves turn brown. The only wild card is if we humans do something REALLY stupid in the meantime like launch all of our canned sunshine at each other.

Personally, I'd rather get a monthly check than experience the apocalypse... but that's just me.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:40 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,979,187 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Game changing technologies tend to upset the status quo... otherwise we'd have little shops hand-crafting goods all over the place and a healthy horse and wagon industry.

Of course in the great shifts of the past, the old industries were wiped out but new jobs were created in new industries that didn't previously exist and that balanced things out.

This time is different... the new world-changing industry is robots/AI computers to do human jobs and said robots/computers can be made by other robots with only a relatively small number of highly skilled human stiffs to design, direct and maintain them.

You don't need a crystal ball to understand this anymore than you need one to see winter is coming after the leaves turn brown. The only wild card is if we humans do something REALLY stupid in the meantime like launch all of our canned sunshine at each other.

Personally, I'd rather get a monthly check than experience the apocalypse... but that's just me.
Probably one of the most often used, and often wrong phrases. Your crystal ball is still no better than mine.
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