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Your claims to the contrary, you haven't proven a thing. You've done nothing more than gather info that supports your opinion. Medical science claims that smoking is hazardous to smokers and everyone in their vicinity. The law agrees. You disagree.
The point is that medical science isn't conclusive by its own standards. Even Sir Richard Doll, the man who established the link between active smoking and lung cancer even said that the risks of passive smoking are so small that they might as well be non-existent.
The reason why we keep attacking your arguments is because you haven't held up to debating standards.
Here is a brief rundown of how debates work:
1) A makes a claim and tries to make a case for it.
2) B uses logic and facts to try to disprove A's claim.
3) A defends his claim without relying on fallacious reasoning and tries to point out any untrue facts, logical fallacies, contradictions, and other unsound reasoning.
4) B points out any mistakes he has made.
You notice a pattern? A debate is supposed to be a constant refining of your argument and the deconstruction of your opponent's argument. The goal is to create an argument that logically sound. You have to find a basis for your argument and follow it through to its logical conclusion. You don't seem to be aware of how its supposed to work.
Here is how you debate:
1) Make a claim and don't provide any evidence.
2) Don't attack your opponents arguments, make up arguments and attack those instead.
3) Say your opponent is wrong without providing any evidence nor actually attempting to debunk the flaws in their evidence or attempting to show any flaws in reasoning.
4) Say that you right and your opponent is wrong. Nothing more.
5) Use appeals to majority and use the common "If it is the law, it is right" fallacy, because we all know that there have never been any laws that have been immoral, foolish, or without factual basis. Mention that more people disagree with your opponent than agree, because we all know that reality is completely reliant on majority perception.
6) Say your opponent is wrong and you are right. Nothing more.
7) Pat yourself on the back for being such an awesome debater. You have indeed won the debate.
The government vs. smokers. What about the gov't vs. ppl who drive gas hogs?
All around the nation, cities and states are banning smoking from public places, EVEN BARS. I thought this nation is a free nation with a market economy. If there is such a demand for "non-smoking areas" then our great nation should provide many people with new business opportunities opening non-smoking only establishments, including non-smoking bars. I feel the buck should stop at bars. Since when is it up to our government to decide that a business cannot allow people to smoke a perfectly legal substance. Of course I know smoking is really bad for you. The only point I am trying to make is that all the non-smokers should quit pressuring the government to force businesses to ban this. Open up your own damn non-smoking establishment. I am sure you would become quite wealthy since apparently there is such a HUGE demand.
If the government is legally allowed to do this, I think I am going to start rallying people who drive cars that are good on gas to go against people who drive huge gas guzzling trucks and SUVs. All you are doing is driving up the gas prices for everyone, depleting the supply faster than everyone else, and putting very toxic pollution into the air I have to breathe at a much faster rate than anyone driving an economical car.
If it is perfectly legal to do that, than I sure as hell should be able to light up in a BAR for crying out loud.
I added that aspect to the title. It would/will still turn into a discussion about smoking rights, gas guzzlers is really a separate discussion but I'll allow it in this thread now.
Car Exhaust Causes Heart Disease
Colin Grainger
19th February 2008.
Just when you thought it was okay to blame all of mankind's ills on smoking, those crazy scientists actually get a little closer to the truth.
Pity they didn't start looking at this source of illness decades ago. So tunnel-visioned were they, they completely overlooked the obvious.
For years and years they subjected lab rats to tobacco smoke. No tumours, no cancers, no ill effects. So then they started painting the rats with nicotine. Despite using enough nicotine to cover the Forth Bridge, the rats still did not contract cancer. Oddly enough, rats exposed to exhaust fumes did contract tumours. I mention this not to put you off your lunch, but to illustrate a point. Scientists tend to look for animals with similar cell structure to humans because testing on humans is not permitted.
In this case, the scientists used zebra fish. Apparently their hearts act like ours do. The British Heart Foundation were not happy to hear this news. Like ASH, and like Cancer Research UK, they have been content, for many years, to blame all illness on smokers.
This new study tells them that something else might be to blame. And they are terrified. The study uses real science, and this is a notion they are completely unfamiliar with. Like our inept government, they prefer to make it up as they go along. Much more difficult to refute, see?
But if we wait long enough, the pharmaceutical companies will come up with something to "relieve" the inhalation of these deadly exhaust emissions. A patch perhaps?
There are many, many more causes of cancer, and we at F2C believe that exhaust emissions, particularly diesel, are killers of note. Those killers have been getting away with murder for years, and the scapegoat was tobacco, in many cases. We aim to bring you a fascinating piece on this subject in the coming days.
Just like smoking, running internal combustion engines should be limited to an outdoor activity!
All around the nation, cities and states are banning smoking from public places, EVEN BARS. I thought this nation is a free nation with a market economy. If there is such a demand for "non-smoking areas" then our great nation should provide many people with new business opportunities opening non-smoking only establishments, including non-smoking bars. I feel the buck should stop at bars. Since when is it up to our government to decide that a business cannot allow people to smoke a perfectly legal substance. Of course I know smoking is really bad for you. The only point I am trying to make is that all the non-smokers should quit pressuring the government to force businesses to ban this. Open up your own damn non-smoking establishment. I am sure you would become quite wealthy since apparently there is such a HUGE demand.
If the government is legally allowed to do this, I think I am going to start rallying people who drive cars that are good on gas to go against people who drive huge gas guzzling trucks and SUVs. All you are doing is driving up the gas prices for everyone, depleting the supply faster than everyone else, and putting very toxic pollution into the air I have to breathe at a much faster rate than anyone driving an economical car.
If it is perfectly legal to do that, than I sure as hell should be able to light up in a BAR for crying out loud.
Just like drivers aren't allowed to park their cars and let them idle in the BARS, you'll just need to step outside to light up. Relax and enjoy your smoke. But please do it legally.
But they meet air quality requirements by exhausting the BBQ smoke/fumes outdoors. Many if not most BBQ in enclosed cabinets with poswerful exhaust hoods. Myabe smokers could be clustered together in a closet with a powerful exhaust fan to prevent them from the horrible inconvenience of stepping outside.
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The government vs. smokers. What about the gov't vs. ppl who drive gas hogs?
