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First off, this post is not meant to convince anyone who is pro death penalty. If you support the practice of "The State" or the Feds killing someone in your name, then you think very differently than those who disagree with you and you will not be persuaded to change your mind.
I have heard your arguments many times before:
If you murdered someone, then you deserve to suffer just like your victims. There is no punishment to gruesome, cruel, or unusual for you. Moreover, you should suffer far beyond just the loss of freedom if you are not sentenced to death...if you get beat up viciously or knifed by other inmates, or beaten by guards, that is what you deserve. So I'm not here to argue with you savages. Moreover, you probably think I am sick and evil that I appear to have "sympathy" for evil criminals.
That said, this country sentences people to death, then tortures them psychologically for years, even decades until the day of legalized killing. I have read of at least two cases of people, probably afflicted with severe neuropsychiatric (brain) illness, attempting suicide, sent to the hospital for life-saving treatment then executed at the scheduled time. In one case, the man was put in restraints in the hospital to keep him from ripping off the bandage on his neck. In another, the man was rushed to a hospital, given life-saving treatment, then flown back by airplane in order to rush him back in time to be executed. This country convicts and kills people who were in the neurological state of psychosis when they committed crimes...which is the very worst offence in my eyes.
If anyone thinks these state-sponsored acts are not just as barbaric as anything the Saudi Government thugs have done, then I beg to differ. In their violent minds, the journalist they are believed to have butchered did something to deserve his killing...just as you pro death penalty folks believe...let's say if someone kills a cop or some other offense. But again, I am not trying to ply your "righteously" violent hearts to tears. My point is that this country has no moral ground to stand on.
I oppose the death penalty but this goes beyond that.
We have historically been a country that values free speech and freedom of the press. We have attempted to ally ourselves with countries that also support those things.
This guy was killed for simply expressing a critical view of his home country's ruler. So in this sense I do think we still have the moral high ground.
If we were no different then we would have to execute millions of people who have spoken out negatively against Trump. Thankfully we are better than that.
I oppose the death penalty but this goes beyond that.
We have historically been a country that values free speech and freedom of the press. We have attempted to ally ourselves with countries that also support those things.
This guy was killed for simply expressing a critical view of his home country's ruler. So in this sense I do think we still have the moral high ground.
If we were no different then we would have to execute millions of people who have spoken out negatively against Trump. Thankfully we are better than that.
Disagree. We are used to seeing ourselves as moral and we congratulate ourselves for our so-called values, but we shred those values every day. A country's moral values are manifested by the way they treat the most despised and condemned among its people.
A member of the Saudi hit squad that killed Jamal Khashoggi has been killed in Riyadh in a "suspicious" car accident. This is what Secretary of State Pompeo was alluding to when he said
I think we can expect a spate of mysterious and coincidental mishaps to surround those involved
A member of the Saudi hit squad that killed Jamal Khashoggi has been killed in Riyadh in a "suspicious" car accident. Is this what Pompeo had in mind when he said the Saudis need a few more days to get their story straight. Allow the Saudis time to find a scapegoat to pin the murder on. Concoct a bogus story to clear MBS? "The dead guy did it."
A member of the Saudi hit squad that killed Jamal Khashoggi has been killed in Riyadh in a "suspicious" car accident. Is this what Pompeo had in mind when he said the Saudis need a few more days to get their story straight. Allow the Saudis time to find a scapegoat to pin the murder on. Concoct a bogus story to clear MBS? "The dead guy did it."
Pompeo Trump Kushner involved in cover-up of murder of Washington Post journalist visiting another country.
That is the new title of every thread.
Trump and Mnuchin decided it best he doesn't go to the financial summit, so maybe we are learning the prince was involved somehow.
Oh, the prince was involved all right. Reported in the Sun link about, seven (one has since 'died') of those in the hit squad were part of his personal security detail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude
This guy was killed for simply expressing a critical view of his home country's ruler.
It's far more complicated than that. Khashoggi came from an extremely wealthy Saudi family with a long history in that region. From the Wiki entry, he's been a prominent, influential, well-connected and very serious thorn in the side of the Saudi royal family for decades:
Khashoggi was not just a journalist. He was far, far more than that - which was written all over his face, imo. His prominence may have given him a false sense of security - thinking the Saudis would never kill such a high-profile individual. He should have known better.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 10-19-2018 at 12:03 AM..
I oppose the death penalty but this goes beyond that.
We have historically been a country that values free speech and freedom of the press. We have attempted to ally ourselves with countries that also support those things.
This guy was killed for simply expressing a critical view of his home country's ruler. So in this sense I do think we still have the moral high ground.
If we were no different then we would have to execute millions of people who have spoken out negatively against Trump. Thankfully we are better than that.
I oppose the death penalty too, although I do understand why there are individuals, communities, and countries that support it. I personally believe the reasons for not having it outweigh their reasons for having it, but there are many things I disagree with that others do.
Here’s the thing in this case, this guy may have lived in the United States but he retained his Saudi citizenship. Other countries are not bound by our first amendment rights. The minute he stepped in that consulate he essentially stepped on Saudi soil. He should have known better, this was not someone ignorant of the laws and norms of the country. I suppose he thought his prominence as a writer for a top American paper would protect him.
The guy has spent years writing posts criticizing the ruling crown prince, for both the general public and politicians to read, in a country where the prince was trying to create and retain a positive image. In Saudi Arabia he would have been tortured, jailed, or perhaps executed after the first critical piece, it was being on US soil that allowed him to continue being such a vocal dissident. Rumors are they cut off his fingers, I find that believable because I can see that being logical in Arabic reasoning (not saying I think it’s right) - cutting off the offending parts. I can buy into the notion that it was an interrogation gone wrong or punishment that went overboard, but honestly if they had arrested him, put him on plane to Saudi Arabia, tortured him there, put him on a fast track trial, and executed him there is not much anyone could do about it. Saudi citizen/Saudi soil/Saudi laws. Morally wrong - legally allowed.
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A member of the Saudi hit squad that killed Jamal Khashoggi has been killed in Riyadh in a "suspicious" car accident. Is this what Pompeo had in mind when he said the Saudis need a few more days to get their story straight. Allow the Saudis time to find a scapegoat to pin the murder on. Concoct a bogus story to clear MBS? "The dead guy did it."
Once the hit squad is all dead, the official version of what happened will be, Khashoggi commited suicide by cutting off his own fingers and head with a bone saw.
Once the hit squad is all dead, the official version of what happened will be, Khashoggi commited suicide by cutting off his own fingers and head with a bone saw.
And our glorious leaders will support that conclusion.
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