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Freedom of individuals to do as they wish by voluntarily entering into agreements with others, (criminal conduct of course is not within the meaning of this freedom of the individual).....thats what capitalism implies. You have the right to sell your labor, since your labor is your property. You also have the right to buy someone else's labor, since they have the right to sell it.
You sound like a commie.
Just as bad, an ideological purist anarcho-communist.
Look, I hate capitalism more than just about anyone on this forum, but this post is basically bull****, and won't win anyone over.
"A man who is without capital, and who, by prohibitions upon banking, is practically forbidden to hire any, is in a condition elevated but one degree above that of a chattel slave. He may live; but he can live only as the servant of others; compelled to perform such labor, and to perform it at such prices, as they may see fit to dictate." - Lysander Spooner
Capitalism is not the most-authoritarian form of government, but we need to define what exactly we mean by capitalism.
And if your argument is that capitalism leads to slavery, I assume you don't mean whips and chains, but rather you are using slavery as a metaphor for "institutionally coerced-labor"?
"In democratic countries, the most important private organizations are economic. Unlike secret societies, they are able to exercise their terrorism without illegality, since they do not threaten to kill their enemies, but only to starve them." - Bertrand Russell
So what system do you want? And if your answer is communism, please explain why so-called communists governments were/are probably the most-authoritarian the world has ever seen.
I don’t have the energy to go over everything I’ve been over a hundred times, if you want you can go read my posts my thread on the economics form.
Anyways you have a serious misunderstanding about how capital works and who it belongs to. Private property is not universal, personal property. Into forms that exist as capital you have direct influence over (the house you live in, your toothbrush, etc.) and then for public capital it is based on usage. The duration someone is operating capital is the extent of their claim on that capital, no legal state apparatus can force ownership of something of one man who does not operate that capital at all and protect it with the threat of violence.
People are free to pay someone in exchange for control of their labor, but that is a purely voluntary agreement and has no legal basis in ownership or official contracts. The moment a person does not want to give up control of their input is the moment this agreement ends. Furthermore, and this is important, the ownership of the capital lays in the hands of those that operate it, not those that claim ownership of something they don’t operate under. If you have 10 workers operating in a factory, they have claims on ownership and no private capitalist can control these means. Someone could bribe them to do as they see, but the power will always be retained at the bottom. If you give undue power to those who can’t operate by it, you lead to tyranny.
I would suggest read Conquest of Bread by Kropotkin, rudolf rockers book in anarcho-syndicalism, reading up about Zapatistas territory in Chiapas Mexico, the CNT in Catalonia during the 1930s.
Or you could actually see how worker cooperatives operate in capitalist countries, in the same democracy operates under political power, so should economic institutions that control the means of production. But you don’t seem interested in any of that since you started with calling my post bull**** without even understanding what it was about.
Capitalism is about the free exchange of goods, services and labor for compensation. Crony capitalism however is not, but is when monopolies form, typically by government interference
Slavery? Typical Anarcho-Socialist hyperbole to be ignored.
Don't waste the effort.
That poster is dedicated to thier own contrived opinion. No amount of reason is enough to make them question these illogical beliefs.
The video overall is good(at least the beginning). And it is good that it villainizes the banks. But it doesn't adequately explain where the system came from, and why it has taken over the entire world. It doesn't really explain the relationship between the banks and the government, or why the banks exist in the first place. And it creates some false villains, such as its weird obsession with Donald Trump.
And while it complains incessantly about the banks, it seems to glorify the state. As if politics could ever be separated from greed/self-interest/profit/etc.
I wish it would go deeper, because the problem is much broader and deeper than is being portrayed in the video. But I am sure the people making the video have their own agenda.
Don't waste the effort.
That poster is dedicated to thier own contrived opinion. No amount of reason is enough to make them question these illogical beliefs.
Again both of you ignore the simple facts about context and externalities.
A economic trade with someone isn’t always fair, if one person needs the capital you have or they’ll die and you charge them a jacked up price, that’s exploitation.
Similarly a deal between two people affect people in the surrounding area. Poison a water system that is ‘owned’ (not a real term, just one capitalist authoritarians use) by one of the members, it can and will affect others somehow. Same with releasing toxic fuels into the air. That has external affects among people not directly involved in said deal. That is not voluntary.
Again both of you ignore the simple facts about context and externalities.
A economic trade with someone isn’t always fair, if one person needs the capital you have or they’ll die and you charge them a jacked up price, that’s exploitation.
Similarly a deal between two people affect people in the surrounding area. Poison a water system that is ‘owned’ (not a real term, just one capitalist authoritarians use) by one of the members, it can and will affect others somehow. Same with releasing toxic fuels into the air. That has external affects among people not directly involved in said deal. That is not voluntary.
Again, you ignore the fact that less than one percent of the world's population believes in the Looney tunes nonsense that you espouse.
Again both of you ignore the simple facts about context and externalities.
A economic trade with someone isn’t always fair, if one person needs the capital you have or they’ll die and you charge them a jacked up price, that’s exploitation.
Similarly a deal between two people affect people in the surrounding area. Poison a water system that is ‘owned’ (not a real term, just one capitalist authoritarians use) by one of the members, it can and will affect others somehow. Same with releasing toxic fuels into the air. That has external affects among people not directly involved in said deal. That is not voluntary.
I know it's a wasted effort, yet...
1. Life isn't fair. (My apologies if this is the first time you have heard this).
2. "Ownership" is a very real thing among people who are not delusional.
3. You are describing violent aggressions, not voluntary agreements.
Don't waste the effort.
That poster is dedicated to thier own contrived opinion. No amount of reason is enough to make them question these illogical beliefs.
I usually do ignore her, as winterfall seems to thrive on the attention. There are certian types of ideological purists that do not let facts, history or reality change their views a single iota, and winterfall is clearly one of them.
I usually do ignore her, as winterfall seems to thrive on the attention. There are certian types of ideological purists that do not let facts, history or reality change their views a single iota, and winterfall is clearly one of them.
This time I engaged a bit.
You have not been able to produce a valid argument or actual address the points I brought up. I’m use to it though, so no problems.
You have not been able to produce a valid argument or actual address the points I brought up. I’m use to it though, so no problems.
Actually, I have refuted your points with facts, but they do not fit "your truth", so you simply ignored them. Others here have noted the same. A common tactic with ideological purists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
Ps. It’s a he
My apologies. You come off as feminine.
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