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Old 09-04-2019, 03:23 PM
 
797 posts, read 239,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
All valid points. I do think people have much larger expectations for their lifestyles now. So they give up some freedom to make enough money to get all those things.
Or more realistically, from all that dear husband and I are seeing, they give up the freedom to think they make enough money, only to be struggling from month to month putting on a show for all, and pretending how well they're doing, when in actuality, they're stressed to the nines, are slaves to their jobs, because they need every penny they can get, and are failing to make ends-meet, even with two incomes coming into the home, and all in the name of materialism.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:30 PM
 
7,145 posts, read 4,557,147 times
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I see 2 problems. First all the high paying factory jobs are gone. Second as others have mentioned people have gotten crazy with their expectations. I am a boomer and no way did we live like the middle class does now. Eating out when raising kids was going to fast food occasionally. Vacations was driving to visit family. We had 1 bathroom for 5 people and 2 of my kids shared a room. Our cars were old.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:33 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,687,712 times
Reputation: 14050
Reaganism - in a nutshell. Deregulation, Union Busting and allowing Government to partner with Big Business to depress wages and benefits for everyone.

How? Well, that's quite simple. Even allowing "contractor status" to the extent Government has is completely foolish....for all involved. Well, except the stockholders......

Simple statistic - the worker produces 3X plus what they produced during those one income times.
The worker doesn't make any of that extra money.....so they are effectively at 1/2 or 1/3rd what they should be making.

That means....two jobs! It's not rocket science.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,773,354 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
To get back to the question of one income....

It's because the middle class has changed what they consider a middle-class lifestyle. It used to be a single earner (almost always the husband) provided for his family as follows: an 1100 SF 3-bedroom, 1-bath house where kids shared bedrooms (and a driveway for one car), a vacation was one week at the beach in a modest little rental apartment, and dinner out was Arthur Treacher's or Olive Garden. The girls got an Easy-Bake-Oven and the boys got G-I Joe dolls. There was a single TV in the DC room.

Now middle class parents aren't satisfied with that. They want a 2800 SF four-bedroom, 2.5 bathroom so each kid gets his own room (and a 2-car garage), vacations are trips to Disney World or family cruises, and dinner out is L&N Seafood or Magianno's. Each kid gets an IPad, an IPhone, and a TV in his room.
The average size of a new home has trebled since 1950, not including garage and often finished lower level. This is despite substantially fewer people occupying the dwelling.

Growing up nearly every family had a grandma living with them. Families had one car.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:02 PM
 
21,952 posts, read 9,522,996 times
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Healthcare and higher education costs. (All brought to you by Democrats).
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,773,354 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Reaganism - in a nutshell. Deregulation, Union Busting and allowing Government to partner with Big Business to depress wages and benefits for everyone.

How? Well, that's quite simple. Even allowing "contractor status" to the extent Government has is completely foolish....for all involved. Well, except the stockholders......

Simple statistic - the worker produces 3X plus what they produced during those one income times.
The worker doesn't make any of that extra money.....so they are effectively at 1/2 or 1/3rd what they should be making.

That means....two jobs! It's not rocket science.
That increased production is attributed to industrial robotics, technology substitution and refinement of processes.

Putting aside inflation for a moment, why would the value of labor change because the business invested in and substituted robotics/ technology for human labor?
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:04 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,687,712 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
The average size of a new home has trebled since 1950, not including garage and often finished lower level. This is despite substantially fewer people occupying the dwelling.

Growing up nearly every family had a grandma living with them. Families had one car.
True - BUT, and this is a big but......a 1200 square foot house, condo, townhouse, etc. in a decent location will cost you as much (sometimes more) than a 3,000 sq ft house.

So it's not like downsizing, in many areas, will save a lot of money. What it will do is get you closer to things (city, water, etc.).....

Here on the New England Coast, a nice 1600 sq. foot condo or small house will be more than a 2800+ homes...in fact, they can't sell the larger (even newer) homes.....

They are doing great selling the 4+ million dollar stuff.....tho.

It's really strange, but it does make some sense. People don't want to pay the heating bills and other expenses for the larger houses, so demand has dropped. Even in Central New England we're not seeing a lot of the former households with 2 or 3 kids and a professional couple as parents (that is the typical large home market, IMHO)....
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:09 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,687,712 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
That increased production is attributed to industrial robotics, technology substitution and refinement of processes.

Putting aside inflation for a moment, why would the value of labor change because the business invested in and substituted robotics/ technology for human labor?
I agree - but productivity has ALWAYS been about improvements in the technology - for thousands of years and in overdrive since the Industrial Revolution. So...nothing has changed except the amazing amount of money made from MONEY instead of from actually doing things.

The reason I wrote "making 1/2 or 1/3rd" - was that using the 1/2 fraction, that would then be sharing the productivity increases between the Capital and the Labor.

That is, if productivity tripled and wages doubled, that would leave lots of room for Wall Street, Capital, etc.......

The real question comes down to whether we are a country and all that happiness of the people stuff - or, are we just a labor force open to any and every form of predation and exploitation which the corporations can lobby to keep legal?

That's a big question for the ages. Right now it's take what you can......and leave the workers behind.
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