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This may shock you, but once upon a time most doctors only earned a good stable middle-class salary, and they became doctors because they felt it was an honorable calling, because they felt it helped people. I know that it's hard for a lot or Republicans to understand, but money is not the sole focus of everyone's life.
When was that? I grew up in the 1950s and even then doctors were making way more than "a stable middle-class salary".
If you think anyone in their right mind would put all that college then work long hours, on call time, all shifts and not make good money you're awful naive.
You can address what they said or spin it to what you want said. I'd like for you to address what was said. Doctors are always going to make good money. That they aren't is pure made up B.S.
The argument though was that if someone was only interested in the money there are other professions that one would go into that requires far less education that pays even more money. Real Estate agent was pointed out as one. Now you have to be in certain areas for the really good money but to become an agent doesn't take a lot of higher education.
If you want to argue that health care reform would take a hit on the wallets of pharmaceutical sales, then I will agree. I have no problem with that.
Its a myth that people give up trying just because they will earn slightly less. They'll still be very well off. And what really matters for people is mostly status and personal development. Not salary.
This idea that if we implement a $15 minimum wage, everyone will just want to become a burger flipper for the next 40 years is pure baloney. Not to mention, a $15 minimum wage acts as a floor for wages, so people making more than that will now have much better bargaining power and increase their wage as well. And no, that doesnt mean prices will skyrocket and everyone will be the same as before. Economics doesnt work like that.
So everyone else will bargain for more? Great way to crash entire businesses. So you really think a small business is able to pay all entry level people $15, and then when more experienced people subsequently demand a raise they should pay that TOO??
Hold up. Do you honestly think that doctors in countries with universal healthcare systems are hurting financially? LOL.
As someone who grew up in a country with UHC, who has 2 first cousins who are doctors in a country with UHC, and who previously worked in a healthcare-related field in a country with UHC, I can tell you that you have a lot to learn on the subject. Doctors in countries with UHC might not be AS wealthy as American doctors are, overall, but they're doing just fine, believe me.
(not to mention that the populations in those countries have much better access to medical care, and are healthier than Americans are).
But medical school is comparatively cheap in these countries, right?
This is a very legitimate debate. What happens for the recent medical grads who are counting on the current salaries since they've already paid all that tuition and are in debt from student loans? Maybe in the future, new doctors entering the field will know what the new reduced salaries are and decide whether all that school and debt is a worthwhile investment?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
I am a physician. My brother and sister are physicians, as well as one sister in law and a brother in law. My daughter is in med school.
We all like what we are doing (medicine is a very interesting job). However, there is a point at which the economics would preclude doing what you like.
No one in their right mind is going to give up income for 12-14 years (you do get paid, but not much, as a resident and fellow), go into debt $300K, and then be a slave to that debt, despite how much they might like medicine. It would be crazy to do so. I was lucky, as when I trained, med school and undergrad was pretty cheap, but not now.
Beyond the debt, there is a pride issue in being paid what your efforts are worth. The job I am in now pays 1/5th of what I made two years ago. I really don't need the money any more, but there is a negative psychological issue of being paid a fraction of your perceived worth and productivity. I get offers all the time for 4-5X what I am paid now. The economics and lifestyle as well as satisfaction are all balancing acts.
There is a reason that socialism does not work. A CRNA doing anesthesia for my cases on Friday was born in Cuba and his mother is still there. When he goes to Cuba, he says he runs across cabbies who were physicians, but quit to be come cabbies for tourists, as they make a lot more money. Socialism sounds good to those who seek cheap or free services. The problem is human nature- people will seek jobs that pay them the most for their services.
Did Bernie argue doctors shouldnt be paid as much or something ?
Ill be honest, that does seem like a logical step to bring down costs
Maybe the "doctor lobby" has been the problem with medial cost all along.
This is a very legitimate debate. What happens for the recent medical grads who are counting on the current salaries since they've already paid all that tuition and are in debt from student loans? Maybe in the future, new doctors entering the field will know what the new reduced salaries are and decide whether all that school and debt is a worthwhile investment?
That's why we have debates and bills introduced to be voted on. To work things like this out. No one can answer any specific question right now.
My daughter starts college this fall. We will be paying for it. I understand that how we fund higher education in the future may change. I support that even knowing it very well is costing me more now that it might in the future.
Not everyone is only interested in their own selfish needs.
Did Bernie argue doctors shouldnt be paid as much or something ?
Ill be honest, that does seem like a logical step to bring down costs
Maybe the "doctor lobby" has been the problem with medial cost all along.
"Medicare for all" mean medicare rates for all. If those schedules were applied today, most of the practices in the US would go belly up.
Also, with medicare rates, the most efficient, lowest cost states are "rewarded" with the lowest rates! While the inefficient, high cost states are paid more. That, of course, is the opposite of how it should be.
Also, physician salaries make up only 5% of healthcare costs, yet for some reason the public targets physician salaries as the principle driver of healthcare costs- they are not at all.
I would actually support a universal healthcare system. However, it would probably be implemented by lawyers and politicians, which would result in a poorly constructed system. No one seems to understand that medical practices have very high overhead costs which do not go away in a universal healthcare system.
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