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View Poll Results: Do you support universal 'congestion pricing?'
yes, sooner rather than later! 6 7.23%
yes, but do it gradually and with participation initially voluntary. 0 0%
No. 74 89.16%
other (please explain below). 3 3.61%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-22-2019, 06:25 AM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,450,499 times
Reputation: 24984

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Impossible to toll every road. If you want to argue we need to change the way we fund roads there are good arguments to make but it would be impossible to toll every road.
The technology exists right now to toll every road and roads should indeed be privatized.
Walter Block has written extensively on privatization:
https://mises.org/wire/walter-block-privatization-roads
Quote:
Walter Block: It is hard to say how they would best collect revenue from the users of these roads. This is an entrepreneurial decision. It is like asking, before the advent of Disney World, would they charge by the ride or have an entrance fee? Would they make it cheaper if you purchased a week-, month-, year-long ticket?

Now that I've ducked your eminently reasonable question, let me speculate about it. One possibility would be a charge per mile, depending upon the time of day, day of the week. Another would be a fixed fee. A third would be some combination, thereof. Perhaps the road owner (likely to be a company the shares of which are owned by the local farmers) would allow choice in this regard to its customers. Those road companies that served consumers well would profit and be able to expand, those that did not would suffer losses, and would be more likely taken over by better managers. Probably, visitors would be charged more, unless the place was trying to attract tourists.

Let's look at private roads in malls. Some allow you to park for free, if they want to encourage attendance. Others charge a fee, unless you make a purchase. Practices vary. So might they in Saskatchewan. All we can say is that if different pricing policies long endure, then they all satisfy consumer needs. If not, the efficient ones will out-compete the inefficient ones.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
7,103 posts, read 5,986,609 times
Reputation: 5712
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
But instead of calling it 'universal tolling,' we should call it 'congestion pricing,' which is progressive-sounding, and reduces any negative vibe.

As more people drive electric cars, gas tax revenue declines. Congestion pricing solves this problem. We have the technology to do it.

I'd propose a swift and sure transition--say universal tolling by Jan 2021, so that the naysayers don't have time to put on a big whine-fest. It could be made part of Nancy Pelosi's proposed infrastructure package.

In Washington State, we have been running a pilot project of 'pay per mile' rather than 'pay per gallon.' It has been a big success. Seattle's first openly lesbian mayor, Jenny Durkan, has already started to explore implementing congestion pricing in the city. The aim is to use it as a way to address climate change.



The key would be to make it UNIVERSAL. Every highway, road, street, tunnel, bridge, and even alley-way would be tolled. The Scandinavians has long had 'universalism' as a key element of the Nordic economic model. To recycle an analogy from another thread, if a program is not universal, those who don't buy in end up being like a beetle in an ant colony, causing nothing but problems. What do you think?
Let's make universal taxation of waterways, beaches, 4th of July events, State Parks, Churches, homeless people. Nothing is sacred. Tax everything...
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:30 AM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,450,499 times
Reputation: 24984
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
Let's make universal taxation of waterways, beaches, 4th of July events, State Parks, Churches, homeless people. Nothing is sacred. Tax everything...
Nonsense. Privatize everything.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:33 AM
 
59,088 posts, read 27,318,346 times
Reputation: 14285
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
but instead of calling it 'universal tolling,' we should call it 'congestion pricing,' which is progressive-sounding, and reduces any negative vibe.

As more people drive electric cars, gas tax revenue declines. Congestion pricing solves this problem. We have the technology to do it.

I'd propose a swift and sure transition--say universal tolling by jan 2021, so that the naysayers don't have time to put on a big whine-fest. It could be made part of nancy pelosi's proposed infrastructure package.

In washington state, we have been running a pilot project of 'pay per mile' rather than 'pay per gallon.' it has been a big success. Seattle's first openly lesbian mayor, jenny durkan, has already started to explore implementing congestion pricing in the city. The aim is to use it as a way to address climate change.



The key would be to make it universal. Every highway, road, street, tunnel, bridge, and even alley-way would be tolled. The scandinavians has long had 'universalism' as a key element of the nordic economic model. To recycle an analogy from another thread, if a program is not universal, those who don't buy in end up being like a beetle in an ant colony, causing nothing but problems. What do you think?

Yawn! "In Washington State," shocking, just SHOCKING!
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:35 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
Reputation: 17865
I'm open to per mile tax based on the weight of the vehicle with the caveat that every penny goes to road infrastructure and we eliminate the fuel tax.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:36 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
Let's make universal taxation of waterways, beaches, 4th of July events, State Parks, Churches, homeless people. Nothing is sacred. Tax everything...

In a sense there is already a per mile tax with the fuel tax, it's not fairly distributed though. Prime example is electric cars pay $0. Drop the outdated fuel tax and you can fairly apply the tax using a formula based on the weight of the vehicle and per mile.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:40 AM
 
7,343 posts, read 4,370,223 times
Reputation: 7659
We also need to tax walking and bicycling. Sidewalks and bike Lanes should not be free for the public to use.

Disabled and mother's pushing strollers pay extra for their inefficiency.
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
The technology exists right now to toll every road and roads should indeed be privatized.
Walter Block has written extensively on privatization:
https://mises.org/wire/walter-block-privatization-roads
The constitution of the US requires roads for postal delivery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Clause
You'd think all these Libertarians would know that.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:32 AM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,450,499 times
Reputation: 24984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The constitution of the US requires roads for postal delivery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Clause
You'd think all these Libertarians would know that.
not that I think its relevent, but where does the constitution grant exclusivity for the creation of roads to the govt?
For the sake of argument, lets say in the future a technology is developed that allows for the teleportation of people, packages, letters, etc. are you gonna use same argument against use of said tech because of the Postal Clause?

FWIW; small l libertarian and ancap. Look it up sometime.
I suspect from your argument you're a big L as in Luddite.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
not that I think its relevent, but where does the constitution grant exclusivity for the creation of roads to the govt?
For the sake of argument, lets say in the future a technology is developed that allows for the teleportation of people, packages, letters, etc. are you gonna use same argument against use of said tech because of the Postal Clause?

FWIW; small l libertarian and ancap. Look it up sometime.
I suspect from your argument you're a big L as in Luddite.
You would get the answer to your question if you opened my link. Sorry to disappoint; I'm no Luddite.
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