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Originally Posted by jbgusa
The argument goes that the U.S. should adopt a "live and let live" approach to political developments in Third-World Latin American countries, and not intervene.
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I never said that, but now that you have, you cannot show how the US might be harmed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
The Monroe Doctrine was created for a reason.
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Did it ever occur to you that the Doctrine is faulty or outdated?
Well, now you have something new to think about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
Notwithstanding the fact that Obama did not like it very much, it is necessary.
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That is a patently false statement, as evidenced by the fact that Obama and Clinton illegally overthrew the Honduran government in July 2009.
That was the 14th time the US illegally overthrew a Honduran government.
You have a lot to learn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
If the U.S. did not so intervene and "terrorize" villagers, other countries would.
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Like who?
No one is going to intervene and so what if they did? There's no harm or threat to the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
What the Soviets and other hostile powers did in Cuba in the late 1950's...
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Another patently false statement.
The only hostile power in Cuba in the late 1950s was the United States, and no other.
The US overthrew Batista, not the Soviets, and not the Chinese and not the French or the Brits or anyone else.
The US.
I'm guessing you didn't read any of the 1,000s of declassified documents released in the 1990s.
Castro worked for the US.
CIA Agent Frank Sturgis was Castro's bodyguard/S-2/S-3/S-4 Officer.
Frank Sturgis coordinated all the air-drops of weapons, ammunition, equipment, supplies, medical aid and food. It was dropped by CIA aircraft flown from Honduras and Guatemala by CIA-trained pilots, many of whom would later play a role in JFK's Bay of Pigs fiasco.
Didn't you see the photos of Castro hailed as the penultimate-hero-god-poet-warrior in Times Square?
Don't you have a public library where you live? You might want to avail yourself of it.
They chauffeured Castro around on, what was it, a 14-city tour of the US I think it was.
All Hail the Hero!
So, what happened? The US happened.
Even so, the Soviets had nothing to do with Cuba until 1962. The Soviets didn't invite Castro to the Soviet Union, Castro invited Castro. If you availed yourself of your public library, you'd know that.
When Castro arrives, he's greeted on the tarmac by a freaking file clerk. That's called a Diplomatic Insult, it's intentional, and the message is: Go home, because we don't want you here. In the Diplomatic World, the protocol is you are received by a person of equal or greater rank, but never more than one rank below you.
As a cabinet member, you should be greeted by the head-of-State, or another cabinet member of equal rank, or an assistant secretary or under-sectary and not be a file clerk sent up from the basement.
Castro, being a hill-jack, didn't quite understand that, so undaunted he hung around and the Soviets promised some foreign aid and trade deals and Castro went away and that was the end of it.
Until JFK kept stepping all over it.
If JFK doesn't get on TV and tell the World he's not going to invade Cuba ever again, the Kennedy Political Crisis never happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
...and tried to do in Nicaragua in the late 1970's (frustrated by Reagan to the tune of lots of criticism) would have happened in, take your pick, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador or Panama. Take a look at Venezuela, a great, self-determining paradise </sarcasm>.
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That's an incredibly poor attitude indicative of sheer ignorance of the facts.
Why don't you actually try nation-building, instead of nation-terrorizing?
Let's talk about President Arbenz of Guatemala.
Chiquita (dba United Fruit outside the US) owns the only port in Guatemala. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
Except Chiquita charges Guatemala for use of the port. And even that wouldn't have been so bad, except Chiquita levied import/export tariffs, duties and excise taxes on all goods.
Chiquita kept 100% of the revenues and Guatemala got $0.
Chiquita also had a 100% monopoly on electrical power, and charged outrageous rates, much, much higher than Americans were paying at the time.
What's a President to do?
Well, Arbenz decided to build a port on the west coast of Guatemala and excited about the Tennessee Valley Authority and Rural Electrification Program, he wants to do the same in Guatemala, so the people will have electricity and at reasonable prices.
For his actions, Arbenz was tried in
absentia and convicted of
Crimes Against Humanity, namely to wit:
Competing While Non-White/Non-Christian.
The US does that a lot.
Prime Minister Nehru of India was tried in
absentia and convicted of
Crimes Against Humanity: Declaring Neutrality While Non-White/Non-Christian.
Nasser of Egypt was also convicted of
Crimes Against Humanity: Declaring Neutrality While Non-White/Non-Christian.
The US tried to murder Nehru and Nasser.
You see, only White Christian Nations like Austria and Sweden are allowed to declare neutrality.
What's really amusing is British Petroleum was nationalized, owned by the British Government, and then when Prime Minister Mossadeq nationalizes the oil companies, the US and UK try Mossadeq in
absentia and convict him of
Crimes Against Humanity: Nationalizing While Non-White/Non-Christian.
Castro and President Cardenas of Mexico were also convicted of
Crimes Against Humanity: Nationalizing While Non-White/Non-Christian.
Only White Christian Nations are allowed to nationalize anything.
Castro and Mossadeq were sentenced to death, but Mossadeq's sentence was commuted to over-throw.
It's quite amusing, actually.
Here, FDR just nationalized the 35 existing State-founded social security plans into the federal Social Security program, and now he's bristling with his leg-braces about to come off because President Cardenas nationalized the oil and natural gas resources in Mexico.
The Mexican oil-workers sued the US oil companies for equal pay, and the Mexican Supreme Court upheld the verdict and ordered equal pay and back-pay, which the US oil companies refused to pay.
I'm not talking about the roly-poly Brown Mexicans here. I'm talking about the White Mexicans, the ones from Spain, France, Italy and Belgium who got their engineering degrees in the US from MIT, Ohio State, Purdue, Stanford
et al.
Yeah, those Mexicans. They were US university-trained engineers: white collar workers.
And then President Cardenas found out the US oil companies engaged in fraud by devaluing their assets to avoid paying royalties or taxes.
The standard US/British contract through the 1980s was US/UK gets 92% of the profits and the host-country gets 8%.
President Schemarke of Somalia laughed at the US and countered with 50%-50% and for that the US murdered him, installed Mohammed Barre as puppet-dictator, who strung out the US for years and fleeced the US of foreign aid, before signing a deal with the Soviets, for which the US overthrew Barre and installed another who was overthrown and then Mohammed Adid gained power and then we got a cool flick:
Black Hawk Down.
Anyway, Cardenas' seizure of US oil assets was legal under international law then and now, under Mexican law, and even under US law.
Cardenas offered the US $24 Million -- the blue-book value of the assets as stated by the US oil companies -- but FDR wanted to invade Mexico, overthrow Cardenas and seize the oil fields. His generals told him no, because they all knew we'd be at war and they can't afford to tie up 3 Army divisions, a Marine division and the Atlantic Fleet for several years fighting Mexico.
Mossadeq offered the Brits $46 Million -- again the state blue-book value by British Petroleum -- and for his efforts, he had three murder attempts and an overthrow.
Castro never offered compensation to my knowledge, but I think his logic was "they got their just desserts." Same story in Cuba.
National Sugar paid sugar cane factory workers $4.50/day -- that's day not hour -- in Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Cuba. It paid field workers in Nicaragua, Honduras and Guatemala $0.90/day, but Cuban workers only got $0.30/day.
The Spanish paid Cuban sugar cane field workers $0.30/day in 1898 when the US took over.
Can you imagine not getting a pay raise for 60 years?
What do you think Americans would do if their wages were frozen at 1959 levels for 60 years?
On top of that, National Sugar and Chiquita and IT&T and the other US companies were screwing Cuba, so Castro legally seized their assets.
Anyway, back to President Arbenz.
Truman ordered the murder of Arbenz, but it wasn't carried out before Eisenhower took office, then Eisenhower commuted Arbenz' sentence to overthrow, and that's what happened.
You know, if you just put 1% effort into being the Christian Democracy you think you are into those countries and offered guidance to build those countries, there wouldn't be a problem.
And the problems are problems
you manufacture.
US and British companies suck up 100% of the profits and resources, pay $0 in taxes and then you have the gall to demand they borrow money from you for development, and when they default, you invade and overthrow the government, like you did with the Dominican Republic (yeah, that actually happened).
If you shared profits and resources and paid taxes, those countries would develop, and their Standard of Living would be comparable to yours, and there'd never be a threat of intervention.
I mean really, you're going to murder Arbenz, because ships from Asia and the South Pacific are going to port on the west coast of Guatemala rather than go through the Panama Canal and pay money to the US?
Holy Cow! If the loss of that little bit of revenues is going to cause the US to puff up, dry up, burn down, fall over and sink into a swamp, then you're doing everything wrong in the first place and you need to REDO FROM START.
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