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Many southerners in the past and today just ignore the history of what the Confederacy stood for, which was white supremacy - racism at its core.
They pretend it is about other things and live in a la-la land. Personally I think many of them have mental problems dealing with delusion. I'm sure they "understood" what the flag meant to other people, but they chose to ignore what it meant and double down into their delusion. I don't think people are all that stupid. Many are, but most are not that stupid in the 1970s to know that the rebel flag stood for enslaving black people and keeping them in an inferior state during the years of the CSA - white supremacy. It is a white supremacy banner.
Well that is your opinion. Are you a southerner, did you have family who fought in the war, read their letters and diaries?
Most people understand the complexity and brutality of the civil war, that it was not entirely about enslaving black people and the most people did not own slaves nor would they gain anything from slavery. As well you seem to ignore that slavery existed in the North as well as did the attitude of white supremacy.
Its not mental delusion or lack of understanding, many southerners don't care what the flag means to other people especially those with limited knowledge of history.
Their belief of what the flag means or stood for isn't any less credible or legitimate.
And almost every liberal forgets the DNC was the party of slavery and Jim Crow.
The DNC, like Lynyrd Skynyrd has evolved over time. I don't think we should forget either, but I am willing to forgive. In my view, doing the right thing (whatever that is) now is always more important that what you did in the past.
Just the same, I'd give a recovering Addict or Alcoholic a chance if their behavior demonstrated that their bad habits are in their past. In all cases, it's always a risk that they are still going to relaps, but as I stated, I personally put more weight on current behaviors than I do past.
I will say (not specific to anything, including LS), the greater the crime, the more they'd have to do to convince me they are OK now.
Well that is your opinion. Are you a southerner, did you have family who fought in the war, read their letters and diaries?
Most people understand the complexity and brutality of the civil war, that it was not entirely about enslaving black people and the most people did not own slaves nor would they gain anything from slavery. As well you seem to ignore that slavery existed in the North as well as did the attitude of white supremacy.
Its not mental delusion or lack of understanding, many southerners don't care what the flag means to other people especially those with limited knowledge of history.
Their belief of what the flag means or stood for isn't any less credible or legitimate.
On the bold, yes. I have over 20 relatives who fought in the war and about 4 of them I've found correspondence they wrote during and not too long after the war. I also have close relatives who are from Tennessee.
Many white southerners do not understand the simplicity of the war for the black population. Your ancestors thought mine were sub-human and deserved to be treated like cattle. Even if they didn't own slaves, 99% of them believed that black people were inferior human beings.
All of the articles of secession included references to slavery except NC's. White northerners also believed that black people were inferior and I've never given them a "pass" on their white supremacist views. I have a wide range of ancestors, on my mother's side most were from "the north" primarily Pennsylvania and Ohio and Canada. They were HEAVILY involved in the war and in anti-slavery societies, vigilance committees, and "colored conventions" that worked to create agendas to abolish slavery and establish the rights of black men and women in this country. I don't ignore the North because I have very deep roots in the north on my mother's side. I also study the local history of where my family has lived since the 1840s and am aware of the various massacres that whites incited upon black people in OH, MI, and IN based upon black people advocating for their rights or daring to be successful farmers, or even building a school for black children. White northerners were/are just as delusional as southerners in regards to this subject.
Many white southerners focus only on their ancestors trials with the war and they ignore the cultural adherence to white supremacy throughout the country and the terrorism inflicted upon black people prior to, during and after the war. You all often disregard the reasons for secession (in referring to your idea that it wasn't "about slavery") and what the economy of the south, the majority of wealth in the south, and the "natural order" of society in the south was about and instead, adhere to this delusion of it being something "good" and acting like slavery wasn't involved or at the forefront of all your delusional "causes" of the war. I know better because of my curiosity about my elders before they died, including my grandfather who was born in Tennessee and whose family fled TN because of racial oppression there, which was probably condoned by your parents and grandparents who didn't care anything about how the black population was treated for the most part (it was their "place" as black people to have less than whites - which is what white supremacy is about - this is also why a lot of these new white supremacist - the alt-righters get upset about not being favored today - they want to go back to the era when the "place" of whites was above everyone else). Some did, I'm sure, but most did not. I'm not upset about it as I'm glad he moved to where my mother's family has long roots. And there was racism here at that time, but not the level it was in TN.
On the bold, yes. I have over 20 relatives who fought in the war and about 4 of them I've found correspondence they wrote during and not too long after the war. I also have close relatives who are from Tennessee.
Many white southerners do not understand the simplicity of the war for the black population. Your ancestors thought mine were sub-human and deserved to be treated like cattle. Even if they didn't own slaves, 99% of them believed that black people were inferior human beings.
All of the articles of secession included references to slavery except NC's. White northerners also believed that black people were inferior and I've never given them a "pass" on their white supremacist views. I have a wide range of ancestors, on my mother's side most were from "the north" primarily Pennsylvania and Ohio and Canada. They were HEAVILY involved in the war and in anti-slavery societies, vigilance committees, and "colored conventions" that worked to create agendas to abolish slavery and establish the rights of black men and women in this country. I don't ignore the North because I have very deep roots in the north on my mother's side. I also study the local history of where my family has lived since the 1840s and am aware of the various massacres that whites incited upon black people in OH, MI, and IN based upon black people advocating for their rights or daring to be successful farmers, or even building a school for black children. White northerners were/are just as delusional as southerners in regards to this subject.
Many white southerners focus only on their ancestors trials with the war and they ignore the cultural adherence to white supremacy throughout the country and the terrorism inflicted upon black people prior to, during and after the war. You all often disregard the reasons for secession (in referring to your idea that it wasn't "about slavery") and what the economy of the south, the majority of wealth in the south, and the "natural order" of society in the south was about and instead, adhere to this delusion of it being something "good" and acting like slavery wasn't involved or at the forefront of all your delusional "causes" of the war. I know better because of my curiosity about my elders before they died, including my grandfather who was born in Tennessee and whose family fled TN because of racial oppression there, which was probably condoned by your parents and grandparents who didn't care anything about how the black population was treated for the most part (it was their "place" as black people to have less than whites - which is what white supremacy is about - this is also why a lot of these new white supremacist - the alt-righters get upset about not being favored today - they want to go back to the era when the "place" of whites was above everyone else). Some did, I'm sure, but most did not. I'm not upset about it as I'm glad he moved to where my mother's family has long roots. And there was racism here at that time, but not the level it was in TN.
Yes, the band was racist, most white people in the 1970s were racist so it's not that big of a deal. There was and is a lot of racism in the music industry. I'm sure they probably stole some black artists' songs/rifts as well as this was common of white artists to do until the late 20th century (every once in a while it happens in the 21st century too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
Many white southerners focus only on their ancestors trials with the war and they ignore the cultural adherence to white supremacy throughout the country and the terrorism inflicted upon black people prior to, during and after the war. You all often disregard the reasons for secession (in referring to your idea that it wasn't "about slavery") and what the economy of the south, the majority of wealth in the south, and the "natural order" of society in the south was about and instead, adhere to this delusion of it being something "good" and acting like slavery wasn't involved or at the forefront of all your delusional "causes" of the war. I know better because of my curiosity about my elders before they died, including my grandfather who was born in Tennessee and whose family fled TN because of racial oppression there, which was probably condoned by your parents and grandparents who didn't care anything about how the black population was treated for the most part (it was their "place" as black people to have less than whites - which is what white supremacy is about - this is also why a lot of these new white supremacist - the alt-righters get upset about not being favored today - they want to go back to the era when the "place" of whites was above everyone else). Some did, I'm sure, but most did not. I'm not upset about it as I'm glad he moved to where my mother's family has long roots. And there was racism here at that time, but not the level it was in TN.
If you believed many southerners focused ONLY on their ancestors trials with the war, then how could you possibly conclude that the band was racist simply because they displayed that flag on stage.
After all, in a 2012 interview with CNN, guitarist Gary Rossington, the band's lone surviving original member, appeared to backpedal on Skynyrd's long-standing love of the flag:
"Through the years, people like the KKK and skinheads kinda kidnapped the Dixie or Southern flag from its tradition and the heritage of the soldiers. … We didn't want that to go to our fans or show the image like we agreed with any of the race stuff or any of the bad things."
I think there is a difference between promoting racism and celebrating their ancestors' warrior spirits. Just because KKK and skinheads and all the racist idiots display that flag, doesn't mean EVERYONE who flies that flag is a racist.
until 1948, the flag was mostly used in contexts where it referred directly to Confederate soldiers: veterans' parades, funerals of veterans or their children, and so on.
In 1948 the Dixiecrat wing of the Democratic party adopted the Confederate battle flag as their logo to use in symbol of resistance to the federal government, and then in the early 1950s, the KKK began using it at their rallies as a way to say, symbolically, "The South shall Rise Again, and then these n word will know their place!"
There are two things the Confederate battle flag has been used to symbolize: remembering the Confederate army as a military group, and blatant anti-black genocidal racism.
There are some who would argue that the first boils down to the second, in practice. I don't think it is necessarily fair. Although I do believe anybody who insist on flying this flag today are at least very insensitive. This part I do understand.
It looks like most of the people don't think the band is a racist band. Kid Rock also displayed that flag on stage. In conclusion, I think to say everybody who flies that flag is a racist is unfair. Intention is everything.
Well that is your opinion. Are you a southerner, did you have family who fought in the war, read their letters and diaries?
Most people understand the complexity and brutality of the civil war, that it was not entirely about enslaving black people and the most people did not own slaves nor would they gain anything from slavery. As well you seem to ignore that slavery existed in the North as well as did the attitude of white supremacy.
Its not mental delusion or lack of understanding, many southerners don't care what the flag means to other people especially those with limited knowledge of history.
Their belief of what the flag means or stood for isn't any less credible or legitimate.
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981;55674276[COLOR=Blue
]If you believed many southerners focused ONLY on their ancestors trials with the war, then how could you possibly conclude that the band was racist simply because they displayed that flag on stage.[/color]
After all, in a 2012 interview with CNN, guitarist Gary Rossington, the band's lone surviving original member, appeared to backpedal on Skynyrd's long-standing love of the flag:
"Through the years, people like the KKK and skinheads kinda kidnapped the Dixie or Southern flag from its tradition and the heritage of the soldiers. … We didn't want that to go to our fans or show the image like we agreed with any of the race stuff or any of the bad things."
I think there is a difference between promoting racism and celebrating their ancestors' warrior spirits. Just because KKK and skinheads and all the racist idiots display that flag, doesn't mean EVERYONE who flies that flag is a racist.
until 1948, the flag was mostly used in contexts where it referred directly to Confederate soldiers: veterans' parades, funerals of veterans or their children, and so on.
In 1948 the Dixiecrat wing of the Democratic party adopted the Confederate battle flag as their logo to use in symbol of resistance to the federal government, and then in the early 1950s, the KKK began using it at their rallies as a way to say, symbolically, "The South shall Rise Again, and then these n word will know their place!"
There are two things the Confederate battle flag has been used to symbolize: remembering the Confederate army as a military group, and blatant anti-black genocidal racism.
There are some who would argue that the first boils down to the second, in practice. I don't think it is necessarily fair. Although I do believe anybody who insist on flying this flag today are at least very insensitive. This part I do understand.
It looks like most of the people don't think the band is a racist band. Kid Rock also displayed that flag on stage. In conclusion, I think to say everybody who flies that flag is a racist is unfair. Intention is everything.
On the blue, I stated that a majority of white people were racist then. Them having the flag and it being a banner of whites supremacy (which they liked to ignore in a delusional manner) means they adhered to racist ideology.
If your ancestor was a warrior just so he/she could ensure a racist apartheid system, then what is the cause for celebration.
Most of what you wrote above is incorrect in regards to it was "mostly used in context where it referred to Confederate soldiers." You must not be from the south lol. I lived in the south for nearly 20 years starting in the 1990s and I saw the confederate flag every day flying on a staff in front of people's homes. There have been confederate flags flying in the south since the end of the Civil War in front of peoples homes.
The main thing the confederate flag symbolizes is white supremacy, which is basically the 2nd part of your bold that you for some reason don't think is "fair." It is okay to you, I guess that you fly a flag to support murderous, oppressive, terroristic traitors. How do you feel about the Nazi flag? Do you see it different today because some people like to change it back to its "original" meaning of being a symbol of peace? Or do you see it as the flag of a murderous, oppressive, terroristic regime?
IMO many of you give it a pass and think it is not "fair" to judge the confederates the same way you do Nazis because the main victims of the Nazis were white people. You place more human value on whites versus blacks. Some also claim it was a "long time ago." But the confederate flag was used for over a century by the KKK to torment and kill a majority of black people, but also white people who dared be friendly to blacks. The flag was used by the KKK to cement the idea of which it originally stood by for - which was the "social order" as it relates to white supremacy. Whites "place" was over that blacks. Whites "place" was to rule over black people and "tame" them and treat them as subhuman. Those celebrating their ancestors delusionally overlook the fact that they are celebrating their ancestors doing the above.
I'll further note, as is shown in another thread that the KKK was founded by Nathan Bedford Forest - a confederate general. Most of the early members of the KKK were Confederate soldiers. They took w hat they were doing in the war and became a terroristic band of soldiers intent on tormenting and killing and raping black people and whites who wouldn't ignore their terrorism.
So the idea that that KKK and the "warriors" of the Confederacy are different, is also delusional. They were the same people. The later KKK members were often sons and grandsons of CSA soldiers who took up the "cause" of their ancestors. That "cause" was white supremacy rule.
On the blue, I stated that a majority of white people were racist then. Them having the flag and it being a banner of whites supremacy (which they liked to ignore in a delusional manner) means they adhered to racist ideology.
If your ancestor was a warrior just so he/she could ensure a racist apartheid system, then what is the cause for celebration.
Most of what you wrote above is incorrect in regards to it was "mostly used in context where it referred to Confederate soldiers." You must not be from the south lol. I lived in the south for nearly 20 years starting in the 1990s and I saw the confederate flag every day flying on a staff in front of people's homes. There have been confederate flags flying in the south since the end of the Civil War in front of peoples homes.
The main thing the confederate flag symbolizes is white supremacy, which is basically the 2nd part of your bold that you for some reason don't think is "fair." It is okay to you, I guess that you fly a flag to support murderous, oppressive, terroristic traitors. How do you feel about the Nazi flag? Do you see it different today because some people like to change it back to its "original" meaning of being a symbol of peace? Or do you see it as the flag of a murderous, oppressive, terroristic regime?
IMO many of you give it a pass and think it is not "fair" to judge the confederates the same way you do Nazis because the main victims of the Nazis were white people. You place more human value on whites versus blacks. Some also claim it was a "long time ago." But the confederate flag was used for over a century by the KKK to torment and kill a majority of black people, but also white people who dared be friendly to blacks. The flag was used by the KKK to cement the idea of which it originally stood by for - which was the "social order" as it relates to white supremacy. Whites "place" was over that blacks. Whites "place" was to rule over black people and "tame" them and treat them as subhuman. Those celebrating their ancestors delusionally overlook the fact that they are celebrating their ancestors doing the above.
You sure make a lot of stupid assumptions.
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