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Old 09-03-2019, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,364,797 times
Reputation: 8252

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
I don't have to do anything. I pointed out that certain laws are stupid, enacted dishonestly with ulterior motives, and the show stopper unconstitutional. Or maybe the worst thing is diversity are the worst violators of the law.
Well, I guess all you can do is to stomp your feet and throw hissy fits. The 1964 and 1965 CRAs have been affirmed as constitutional for the last 50+ years.

Oh, maybe you should learn to use proper diction ("Diversity are the worst violators of the law?"). I thought nativists were all about using (proper)English.

 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:41 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,898,651 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
No, I have never defended racism. Please show me where I have defended racism.

I defend freedom and that includes the freedom to do stupid things like choosing your customers based on skin color.
The problem with your position is that discrimination isn't just an exercise OF freedom, it is also an exercise AGAINST freedom. For instance, in this case the venue owner was exercising her own freedom by denying an interracial couple the use of her venue, but she was also acting against the freedom of the interracial couple. Now, the argument becomes that the interracial couple can simply find another venue. And that is true, they can try to find another venue, but it won't be in Booneville, because she's the only venue in town. And that can impact their celebration. Maybe some of their guests cannot travel 50 or 100 miles away to another venue. Maybe the couple cannot do that, maybe one of them has to work or take care of a family member. The civil rights laws that prohibit racial discrimination, and other discrimination, aren't about taking away the rights of people like the venue owners. The civil rights laws are about balancing the freedom of one group against the freedom of another. Legally, you are prohibited from shooting someone else because they tick you off. Your freedom to do something to another person is balanced by law against the freedom of the other person to live.

Sometimes the balancing of freedoms seems to some people to go overboard. Like baking cakes. But the law is a framework, it is up to judges to navigate that framework. There is a reason why Lady Justice is blindfolded, and why the justice system is an adversarial system, with two sides arguing their point of view.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:43 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,883,785 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Well, I guess all you can do is to stomp your feet and throw hissy fits. The 1964 and 1965 CRAs have been affirmed as constitutional for the last 50+ years.

Oh, maybe you should learn to use proper diction ("Diversity are the worst violators of the law?"). I thought nativists were all about using (proper)English.
Shows what you know then. I don't care if someone writes informally or makes occasional errors in English. Just don't speak in butchered English or worse yell in an awful sounding foreign language would suffice.

Diversity better start following the very laws more closely it supposedly supports.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,364,797 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Show what you know then. I don't care if someone writes informally or makes errors in English. Just don't speak in butchered English or worse yell in an awful sounding foreign language would suffice.
Looks like you got double standards - you demand others speak in proper English but you can't do the same for yourself. You just got hoisted on your own petard. That's from Shakespeare's Hamlet, by the way.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,902,520 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The problem with your position is that discrimination isn't just an exercise OF freedom, it is also an exercise AGAINST freedom. For instance, in this case the venue owner was exercising her own freedom by denying an interracial couple the use of her venue, but she was also acting against the freedom of the interracial couple. Now, the argument becomes that the interracial couple can simply find another venue. And that is true, they can try to find another venue, but it won't be in Booneville, because she's the only venue in town. And that can impact their celebration. Maybe some of their guests cannot travel 50 or 100 miles away to another venue. Maybe the couple cannot do that, maybe one of them has to work or take care of a family member. The civil rights laws that prohibit racial discrimination, and other discrimination, aren't about taking away the rights of people like the venue owners. The civil rights laws are about balancing the freedom of one group against the freedom of another. Legally, you are prohibited from shooting someone else because they tick you off. Your freedom to do something to another person is balanced by law against the freedom of the other person to live.

Sometimes the balancing of freedoms seems to some people to go overboard. Like baking cakes. But the law is a framework, it is up to judges to navigate that framework. There is a reason why Lady Justice is blindfolded, and why the justice system is an adversarial system, with two sides arguing their point of view.
I value property rights over the right to shop with only a few exceptions such as medical emergency services.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The problem with your position is that discrimination isn't just an exercise OF freedom, it is also an exercise AGAINST freedom. For instance, in this case the venue owner was exercising her own freedom by denying an interracial couple the use of her venue, but she was also acting against the freedom of the interracial couple. Now, the argument becomes that the interracial couple can simply find another venue. And that is true, they can try to find another venue, but it won't be in Booneville, because she's the only venue in town. And that can impact their celebration. Maybe some of their guests cannot travel 50 or 100 miles away to another venue. Maybe the couple cannot do that, maybe one of them has to work or take care of a family member. The civil rights laws that prohibit racial discrimination, and other discrimination, aren't about taking away the rights of people like the venue owners. The civil rights laws are about balancing the freedom of one group against the freedom of another. Legally, you are prohibited from shooting someone else because they tick you off. Your freedom to do something to another person is balanced by law against the freedom of the other person to live.

Sometimes the balancing of freedoms seems to some people to go overboard. Like baking cakes. But the law is a framework, it is up to judges to navigate that framework. There is a reason why Lady Justice is blindfolded, and why the justice system is an adversarial system, with two sides arguing their point of view.
Positive rights and negative rights:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8E7_u2qgjE
 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:50 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,883,785 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Looks like you got double standards - you demand others speak in proper English but you can't do the same for yourself. You just got hoisted on your own petard. That's from Shakespeare's Hamlet, by the way.
Looks like you imagine things and make things up about others.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,628,263 times
Reputation: 29385
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Shows what you know then. I don't care if someone writes informally or makes occasional errors in English. Just don't speak in butchered English or worse yell in an awful sounding foreign language would suffice.

Diversity better start following the very laws more closely it supposedly supports.
You said you hated walking down the street and hearing people speak Spanish.

Easily triggered.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Born + raised SF Bay; Tyler, TX now WNY
8,509 posts, read 4,752,974 times
Reputation: 8431
I don’t believe that this is a property rights issue. Denial of service based on reasons related to a protected class enters into a legal liability issue.

I sides with the baker when they wouldn’t bake for a gay wedding. LGBT aren’t a protected class. Was it tacky, tasteless, wrongheaded? Yup. But not illegal.

Here though, that’s a different story.

Being in an interracial marriage, I have really seen it take off most especially in the last few years. The stares we used to get are almost completely gone as the novelty wears off.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,902,520 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
I don’t believe that this is a property rights issue. Denial of service based on reasons related to a protected class enters into a legal liability issue.

I sides with the baker when they wouldn’t bake for a gay wedding. LGBT aren’t a protected class. Was it tacky, tasteless, wrongheaded? Yup. But not illegal.

Here though, that’s a different story.

Being in an interracial marriage, I have really seen it take off most especially in the last few years. The stares we used to get are almost completely gone as the novelty wears off.
It’s definitely a property rights issue. How is it not?
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