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Old 07-27-2020, 09:56 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
They have also stolen millions of acres in Tibet.
Tibet is part of China, so how can they steal land from Tibet?

What people in the West never mention, the government that lost the civil war in China, and fled to and stole Taiwan, had exactly the same geographical borders of China. They didn't only claim Tibet and Western China, but also the islands in the South China Sea. And even today Taiwan, which is considered pro-Western, claims exactly the same huge U-shaped zone in the South China Sea as China. A rare occasion where they agree.

 
Old 07-27-2020, 09:59 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
cite a single instance where you took the side of any other country over china.
I didn't say anything about countries. Which country should I side with against China?! Certainly not the US, no. There would have to be international conflicts, else I can't side with this or that country.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:00 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
China, and Russia both, are due to implode due to their unrecoverable fertility rates. China gave women the permission, some time ago, to have 2 children, and 70% of Chinese women said, No way Jose! 1 child is enough!

And will there even be enough workers to man the thousands of nursing homes some day in China?
Same here in many European countries. And if it were not for immigration, the US would have the same problem. But because of the language barrier, immigration is not really an option for China.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:05 AM
 
17,449 posts, read 9,285,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro5 View Post
Being pro-China is not going to win you much support for more reasons than can be listed here.

It is a communist country with an oppressive government. You are not going to convince anyone that's a good thing.
Communists DO support Communist Regimes, and there are plenty of Communists in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Personally, I don't have any problem with communism.
I rest my case.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:07 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
China's a great country as long as we ignore the industrial espionage, theft of intellectual property and dumping of products.
Dumping is not the case. It used to be, but anti-dumping laws have long ended that practice, which by the way is not in China's interest, anyway. They want to move from quantity to quality manufacturing, similar to what Japan did decades ago.

Yes, they have stolen IP over the years. Then again, did you know that China was the first victim of organized industrial espionage? Britain sent spies to China in order to steal the secrets of tea production, and then made a fortune with that knowledge during colonial times. France sent spies to steal the secrets of porcelain from China. It is no coincidence that porcelain is also called china.

And look at it this way, the sooner China gets to the top, the more likely they will also become the target of espionage again. In fact, there is a lot of Western spying on China already. It is not at all one-way street as Western media and politicians want to make us believe. The Chinese just don't whine about it.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:11 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
Communists DO support Communist Regimes, and there are plenty of Communists in the USA.



I rest my case.
I live in Portugal, we have a communist party and a lot of people proudly vote for it. Others vote for a leftist party, which evolved out of the communist party. And the majority of voters voted for the socialist party, which has been running the country successfully for more than 4 years now.

So, no, I don't have that ideological bias. I am not allowed to vote here, but if I were, I would vote for the leftist party, compared to which US Democrats are like a right-wing party.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:14 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,027,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Personally, I don't have any problem with communism. In fact, China is not really communist to begin with, it is simply back to its old self, i.e. a strong central government and a lot of manufacturing and trade, just like in the Middle Ages for instance. That whole communism vs capitalism thingy is kind of irrelevant because it is just words used by ideologists.


People who actually go to China don't confirm oppression. A German business partner of mine used to travel to China frequently (until Corona came along) and he liked it there, he actually said that the Chinese are more similar to Germans than Americans are.
Of course it’s not communist, and an authoritarian government trying to hide it’s stripes.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:27 AM
 
6,619 posts, read 5,019,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I know, being against China is the standard these days. But not in my case. The more I investigate and read about the accusations against China, the more I notice that 95% of it is just one big staged smear campaign.

It doesn't matter who gets elected in November, Biden is a criminal just like Trump.

Take the Uighur accusations for instance. According to Reuters, that started the media campaign, China holds a million Uighurs in concentration camps, quoting the UN. From there the claim was repeated ad nausea by the NYT, WP, etc., like parrots.

However, the UN has not claimed anything like that. In fact, only a single woman named Gay McDougall, who is anything but an expert on China, made such claims in her role as the only American on the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, which is separate from the UN, though. She has not provided any evidence to back up her claim, just mentioned "credible reports".

Those came for instance from the Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders (CHRD), an anti-Beijing organization based in Washington, that receives hundreds of thousands of dollars from Washington's regime-change body National Endowment for Democracy (NED), basically an imperialist terrorist organization acting under the pretext of spreading democracy. The CHRD is registered at the same address as Human Rights Watch, an organization known for its proximity to US politicians.

Leading members of CHRD are Su Xiaokang, Teng Biao, Perry Link, Renee Xia (the founder). They are hard-core anti-Chinese radicals/dissidents that support people like Liu Xiaobo, another radical that makes racist comments against the Chinese, supports colonialism and wars.

Another source of those Uighur accusations are stories by Radio Free Asia, an American propaganda station.

Yet another source are the World Uighur Congress and the International Uyghur Human Rights and Democracy Foundation, both organizations are funded by the aforementioned National Endowment for Democracy, that tries to topple governments Washington doesn't like.


Finally, there is a weird German guy called Adrian Zenz, who emigrated to the US. He is a radical evangelist Christian who goes around claiming god chose him to fight China. Zenz came up with the absurd figure of a million incarcerated Uighurs and his fabrications have been the foundation for anti-Chinese US laws.


https://thegrayzone.com/2018/08/23/u...ighur-muslims/






The same happens when one investigates the corona accusations, the HK accusations, the Huawei accusations, etc. People should not just read headlines and swallow what they see on TV, but investigate.

I am convinced that, while not perfect of course, China is actually a much more decent, benevolent country than the US. And most of what China does is merely to defend itself.
This is so 2019, after years of testimony from escaped prisoners, China no longer denies the existence of such camps, they also dont deny the so called reeducation policies which for example forces Uighurs to house communist officials on their home for supervisions.

https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/m..._Testimony.pdf
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:29 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,770,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Of course it’s not communist, and an authoritarian government trying to hide it’s stripes.
China is not really authoritarian. Not more so than other countries the West has no problems with, like Saudi-Arabia for instance. Would China cease to be considered authoritarian if it decided to call itself a kingdom or empire? I think it is naive and silly to think the whole world needs to do that stupid election and party thing, like in the West. If a country does fine without it, so be it. That is actually one reason for the whole war on China, the West can't handle the idea that a non-democratic country is successful because the West spreads democracy in order to weaken countries. As we can see around the world, political parties and elections drive wedges into society, make them go back and forth between left and right, etc. No long-term reliability, but a hateful society that confused politics with a football match, that is all about winning.
And what's the point of democracy, when it yields a rogue state, anyway, because of a rogue populace? One can see that in the US, Brazil, Israel etc.


There is a kind of power struggle between the Chinese president and the prime minister.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:32 AM
 
8,957 posts, read 2,565,103 times
Reputation: 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
China is not really authoritarian.
LOL, wow, now that's some really hilarious communist propaganda. I wonder how many people are legitimately dumb enough to buy any of it.

Anyway, you are doing a great service for your communist masters, keep it up kiddo.
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