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Old 07-08-2008, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,184 posts, read 4,768,189 times
Reputation: 4869

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
I have come to realize in the school system run by unions and liberals you will find they dont want a informed public. The dumber we are the easier it is for government dependancy. People should find other resources other then public schools. TRY the LIBRARY IT IS FREE, or the internet!!! Watch the histroy channel and watch the stories on the American Revolution and you might understand something about freedom and liberty. Also I think instead of giving the students condoms in school and bibles try giving them a copy of the constitution and give them a test. The Constitution is not a living breathing doc it is list of rights to preserve your individual freedom and to restrict the power of government.
You've made some good points re the library and the bibles. However, you mentioned a couple of things with which I have a slight problem.

I don't live in New Jersey, so I don't know how things work over there. However, in my state, K-12 education is controlled by locally elected school boards. These boards are full of conservatives. My district is roughly 65 percent Republican. It's so republican that I can confidently say that if someone were to get Trent Franks drunk and broadcast him on youtube while running naked, wearing velcro gloves and chasing sheep, this district would send him back to Congress in a New York minute. Even a lot of Mexicans drive around with "Viva Bush" bumper stickers on their cars/trucks.

Anyway, liberals do not control education where I live. Arizona is also a right to work state. Unions are few and rather feeble by NE standards. I maybe wrong, but after having read many NJ posters on C-D it is my understanding that that students in NJ score higher than AZ students. So, conservatives and Republicans are the ones responsible for the state of education where I live.

Second, I do not believe our federal constitution is so black and white. I believe the founding fathers left flexibility and ambiguity in it so that it would stand the test of time. Without flexibility, our country would not be able to adapt and overcome changing times. And time does change things. Otherwise, we'd be like the Saudis: so black and white that they're stuck in the 7th century.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:35 PM
 
3,124 posts, read 4,937,768 times
Reputation: 1955
To a certain degree our isolation from much of the world (due to the oceans seperating us) has played a part in Americans tending to be less "cosmopolitan" than our peers in other developed nations. However, there are many other contributions to the perceived notion that Americans are ignorant (which is not the same as uneducated or stupid; the common perception is more that Americans are willfully ignorant). I think the trend with younger generations (yay us! LOL! ) is increasing awareness due to the shrinking distance thanks to technology.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:37 PM
 
717 posts, read 773,846 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
You are a prime example!
That liberal anger at Christians --I love it.
Government has no right to educate a human being. Schools should be privatized at once. Create competition between schools.
The School Voucher program is the way to creating a succesful education system we can all be proud of.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:54 PM
 
13,650 posts, read 20,780,689 times
Reputation: 7651
Quote:
It has often been claimed by people all around the world (Americans included) and of all political stripes that Americans are hopelessly ignorant and naive about the world and world history. I have to agree, Americans are far less aware of the world and more unaware of world history than even the people who most resemble them culturally; Canadians.
To be well-versed in the world and world history requires that one make a tremendous effort on their own. You are not going to learn much more than the basics in school. You have to read a great deal, view documentaries, travel, keep up to date on current events, etc. You have to live and breathe the subject. It requires a continuing investment in time.

And from what I have seen, neither Americans nor Europeans and Canadians are interested enough to make that investment. The end results is that all three make sweeping generalizatons and form opionions based on heresay or out of date stereotypes.

Look at all three societies. All are characterized by endless amounts of drivel on TV, tabloids, and celebrity obsession. Hardly an environment that would spawn mass interest in the ins and outs of other countries' policies.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:55 PM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,683,672 times
Reputation: 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
You've made some good points re the library and the bibles. However, you mentioned a couple of things with which I have a slight problem.

I don't live in New Jersey, so I don't know how things work over there. However, in my state, K-12 education is controlled by locally elected school boards. These boards are full of conservatives. My district is roughly 65 percent Republican. It's so republican that I can confidently say that if someone were to get Trent Franks drunk and broadcast him on youtube while running naked, wearing velcro gloves and chasing sheep, this district would send him back to Congress in a New York minute. Even a lot of Mexicans drive around with "Viva Bush" bumper stickers on their cars/trucks.

Anyway, liberals do not control education where I live. Arizona is also a right to work state. Unions are few and rather feeble by NE standards. I maybe wrong, but after having read many NJ posters on C-D it is my understanding that that students in NJ score higher than AZ students. So, conservatives and Republicans are the ones responsible for the state of education where I live.

Second, I do not believe our federal constitution is so black and white. I believe the founding fathers left flexibility and ambiguity in it so that it would stand the test of time. Without flexibility, our country would not be able to adapt and overcome changing times. And time does change things. Otherwise, we'd be like the Saudis: so black and white that they're stuck in the 7th century.
NJ is full of democrats and compared to the state test which is different on from state to state. Test scores mean nothing when talking about different state tests. Also just because they are republicans doesnt make them conservative at all. If they are anything like John McCain AZ senator then I know they aren't conservative. Also local school boards don't set standards and teach the classrooms. The flexiblity to the constitution doesn't mean we should erode the bill of rights. The flexibilty also doesn't mean you can ignore the 2nd amendment and believe only in the 1st. Without the second amendment government would have removed the first by now. Armed CITIZENS are the only thing that keeps goverments in check. Founding fathers knew that and that is why it is in the Constitution.
The right to fair trail is also to be in black and white other wise we would be the Saudis.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:56 PM
 
3,124 posts, read 4,937,768 times
Reputation: 1955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
To be well-versed in the world and world history requires that one make a tremendous effort on their own. You are not going to learn much more than the basics in school. You have to read a great deal, view documentaries, travel, keep up to date on current events, etc. You have to live and breathe the subject. It requires a continuing investment in time.

And from what I have seen, neither Americans nor Europeans and Canadians are interested enough to make that investment. The end results is that all three make sweeping generalizatons and form opionions based on heresay or out of date stereotypes.

Look at all three societies. All are characterized by endless amounts of drivel on TV, tabloids, and celebrity obsession. Hardly an environment that would spawn mass interest in the ins and outs of other countries' policies.
Excellent points and post. [reps]
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:05 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,028 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
The self-esteem movement and the shift away from classes grouped by ability/skill level to mixed-ability classes which include students whose competency levels have a very wide range (an 8 or more grade-level difference between the lowest-ability and highest-ability student in a single classroom/class is not uncommon) have caused a huge downward achievement trend in American education.

From The Other Crisis in American Education...

Quote:
"In effect, the test numbers substantiate what the National Commission on Excellence in Education concluded--quoting the education analyst Paul Copperman--in 1983 in A Nation at Risk: "Each generation of Americans has outstripped its parents in education, in literacy, and in economic attainment. For the first time in the history of our country, the educational skills of one generation will not surpass, will not equal, will not even approach, those of their parents."

..."While students in the bottom quartile have shown slow but steady improvement since the 1960s, average test scores have nonetheless gone down, primarily because of the performance of those in the top quartile. This "highest cohort of achievers," Rudman writes, has shown "the greatest declines across a variety of subjects as well as across age-level groups." Analysts have also found "a substantial drop among those children in the middle range of achievement," he continues, "but less loss and some modest gains at the lower levels." In other words, our brightest youngsters, those most likely to be headed for selective colleges, have suffered the most dramatic setbacks over the past two decades--a fact with grave implications for our ability to compete with other nations in the future."
The Other Crisis in American Education - 91.11 (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/educatio/singalf.htm - broken link)
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:19 PM
 
Location: los angeles
5,032 posts, read 12,611,786 times
Reputation: 1508
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJGIANTS View Post
That liberal anger at Christians --I love it.
Government has no right to educate a human being. Schools should be privatized at once. Create competition between schools.
The School Voucher program is the way to creating a succesful education system we can all be proud of.
Wrong, I am angry over a certain group of Christians who have uneducated/non-ordained clergy who answer to no one [no supervisor/bishop] unlike the vast majority of Christians. Please make sure you are referring to the Bible belt evangelical/free Baptists [who have very little in common with the Church.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,184 posts, read 4,768,189 times
Reputation: 4869
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
NJ is full of democrats and compared to the state test which is different on from state to state. Test scores mean nothing when talking about different state tests. Also just because they are republicans doesnt make them conservative at all. If they are anything like John McCain AZ senator then I know they aren't conservative. Also local school boards don't set standards and teach the classrooms. The flexiblity to the constitution doesn't mean we should erode the bill of rights. The flexibilty also doesn't mean you can ignore the 2nd amendment and believe only in the 1st. Without the second amendment government would have removed the first by now. Armed CITIZENS are the only thing that keeps goverments in check. Founding fathers knew that and that is why it is in the Constitution.
The right to fair trail is also to be in black and white other wise we would be the Saudis.
My school board has fired principals and teachers, they have singled out principals and teachers and transferred them, even against parental wishes. Like I said, where I live, school boards run the show and they do engage in micromanagement. College entrance examinations (i.e. SAT/ACT) are uniform across the nation.

I do believe that whatever freedom the working class has is due to the fact that the citizenry of this country is armed to the teeth. My state is also a conceal and carry weapon state.

If you ever have a chance, visit Phoenix/Glendale AZ and you'll see how conservative this town is. The reason McCain kept getting re-elected is that he didn't have any real competition and most people will vote for whomever isn't a democrat.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,286,152 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
Not to say it is right but Darwin evolution theory isn't fact either. Both are just ideas and nothing more. Maybe we should leave out both and let the individuals students decide for themselves how things were created. In science aren't they suppose to believe in facts not theory.
The rest of the world believes in evolution. It has been proven.
You're confusing a scientific theory, that has many logical steps, and takes years to become a "theory" and creationism based on a god-thing.

If the US is going to be a player in the world, fantasy has to stop being taught in schools outside of literature classes.
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