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It's a paranoid, white trash poster who rants against the Joos and black UN helicpoters circling above. Leave FOx news obsession for another thread. Thanks.
Read the Talmud? Who understands Aramaic? If not, then you are relying on someone's translation. And I've seen sketchy translations of clear things in the Bible (I can read Hebrew...many translations are "off" when it comes to biblical passages).
Also the Talmud is not a book that can be read "straight". You have the main text (gemara & mishnah) and then commentaries by several people on that text. So exactly what is being quoted? The whole point of showing several commentaries is that often times, the interpretations do not agree.
That's a fantasy interpretation of the 60 years of MIdeast history, but I suppose a gratuitous, albeit irrelevant shot at Bush. Nice try though. CLinton, Bush 1, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman. All of them "honest brokers?"
Educate yourself. Google the term and see how far back those very words extend as an expressed basis for US policy in the region. And prior to the time that the term itself came into common parlance, count the years of like policy that eventually culminated in the term's being applied. Compare and contrast all that to Bush's retractionist policy of letting Israel determine its own course of action with assurances of US backing if it ever got into any trouble over it. Hasn't that worked out well...
Educate yourself. Google the term and see how far back those very words extend as an expressed basis for US policy in the region. And prior to the time that the term itself came into common parlance, count the years of like policy that eventually culminated in the term's being applied. Compare and contrast all that to Bush's retractionist policy of letting Israel determine its own course of action with assurances of US backing if it ever got into any trouble over it. Hasn't that worked out well...
Educate myself? I'm more interested in you backing up your claim, which I find silly. The US has never tried to be an "honest broker" because there is no such thing. I'm not sure what you mean by "retractionist," is that a Bush-ism for "reductionist?" Regardless, to pretend that a complex situation can be reduced if you will to a, "well both sides have been very bad so let's just pretend we have no reason or basis to not choose sides and then everyone will love us and trust us" is infantile thinking.
Or it's calculated Orwellian-speak to take shots at Israel. On this forum we already have an un-hooded KKK supporter trying to mask himself as one who simply thinks that "Zionists" have too much influence. Gotta love the internet.
Each president has charted a course on dealing with the Israeli-Arab dispute based on what he feels is best for the US. Indeed it was not until the 1960's that the US took on the role of patron for Israel that was previously held by France. Even good ol's Jimmy Carter was no "honest broker" for peace. He sold out the Palis to get Egypt to sign Camp David.
Educate myself? I'm more interested in you backing up your claim, which I find silly. The US has never tried to be an "honest broker" because there is no such thing.
It seems that you did not heed advice to google the term, else you would have encountered at least many of the hundreds and perhaps thousands of articles, reports, treatises, and analyses that make specific use of the term with regard to US policy and protocols in the Middle East region. In all honesty, it is not possible for someone to have followed the history of US involvement with this region without having become totally accustomed and inured to this term. To object to it, and further to claim that the concept itself does not exist, is suggestive only of a rather substantial number of degrees of separation from the actuality of the matter...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns
I'm not sure what you mean by "retractionist," is that a Bush-ism for "reductionist?"
Reductionism is the act of rejecting facts apprently needed to establish the truth of a premise in favor of some (usually more convenient) alternate set of facts. Retractionism is the act of taking back that which had previously been put forward or of later arguing with that which had previously been agreed to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns
Regardless, to pretend that a complex situation can be reduced if you will to a, "well both sides have been very bad so let's just pretend we have no reason or basis to not choose sides and then everyone will love us and trust us" is infantile thinking.
To construe a simple statement of the fact that mutual offense has been given in the Israeli-Palestinian matter in such a way is a fairly good example of not thinking at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns
Or it's calculated Orwellian-speak to take shots at Israel.
Despite what may be your personal biases and preferences, Israel has not been and will not be granted any immunity from criticism. Each and every side and player is and will continue to be accountable for the nature of its own actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns
Even good ol's Jimmy Carter was no "honest broker" for peace. He sold out the Palis to get Egypt to sign Camp David.
To the extent that securing agreement for the establishment of a contiguous and fully autonomous Palestinian state could be called "selling out". In 1978.
It seems that you did not heed advice to google the term, else you would have encountered at least many of the hundreds and perhaps thousands of articles, reports, treatises, and analyses that make specific use of the term with regard to US policy and protocols in the Middle East region. In all honesty, it is not possible for someone to have followed the history of US involvement with this region without having become totally accustomed and inured to this term. To object to it, and further to claim that the concept itself does not exist, is suggestive only of a rather substantial number of degrees of separation from the actuality of the matter...
That the term is repeated ad nauseum is proof of nothing more then, well, the term has been repeated alot. It's right up there with "peace process" and if you think wither means anything, good for you. It doesn't change the fact the the US is not, nor can it be, nor should it be an "honest broker." The US should act in its best interest and in the interest of its allies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
Reductionism is the act of rejecting facts apprently needed to establish the truth of a premise in favor of some (usually more convenient) alternate set of facts. Retractionism is the act of taking back that which had previously been put forward or of later arguing with that which had previously been agreed to.
I learned a new word. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
To construe a simple statement of the fact that mutual offense has been given in the Israeli-Palestinian matter in such a way is a fairly good example of not thinking at all.
Clever, but empty. That two sides have done bad things to each other does not mean that it is not possible to say that one side is deserving of our support more than another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
Despite what may be your personal biases and preferences, Israel has not been and will not be granted any immunity from criticism. Each and every side and player is and will continue to be accountable for the nature of its own actions.
Critique away good Sir!
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
To the extent that securing agreement for the establishment of a contiguous and fully autonomous Palestinian state could be called "selling out". In 1978.
To the extent that Sadat went in waving the flag of Palestinian liberation and walked out with the Sinai, lots of American money and guns and an empty peace of paper promising Palestinian statehood that is as meaningless today as it was in 1978.
Somebody needs to stand up for the Palestinians. They are human beings for gods sake. Israel is committing a holocaust of their own by occupying Palenstinian land, destroying homes, dropping bombs, blindly firing machine guns into crowds and homes, check points and closed roads every 10 feet, etc etc.
And for the record, people talk about Al-Jazeera like its the anti-christ or something. Its just a news channel. It has a pro-Arab pro-Palestinian bent to it and there's nothing wrong with that. So what is the big deal? They are not the mouthpiece of Osama bin Laden as the Bush administration and other neo-cons always say. You can view a live stream on their website I believe, so you can watch it for yourself.
Somebody needs to stand up for the Palestinians. They are human beings for gods sake. Israel is committing a holocaust of their own by occupying Palenstinian land, destroying homes, dropping bombs, blindly firing machine guns into crowds and homes, check points and closed roads every 10 feet, etc etc.
And for the record, people talk about Al-Jazeera like its the anti-christ or something. Its just a news channel. It has a pro-Arab pro-Palestinian bent to it and there's nothing wrong with that. So what is the big deal? They are not the mouthpiece of Osama bin Laden as the Bush administration and other neo-cons always say. You can view a live stream on their website I believe, so you can watch it for yourself.
If you truly want to stand up for the Palestinians, instead of using them to indulge your revolutionary fantasies, encourage them to join the civilized world by turning away from Hamas and its warmongering ways.
If you truly want to stand up for the Palestinians, instead of using them to indulge your revolutionary fantasies, encourage them to join the civilized world by turning away from Hamas and its warmongering ways.
Just a thought.
I'm sorry but Israel is the country who is committing the most disgusting acts of oppression and occuption, not the impoverished, imprisoned, and hopeless Palestinians. I have BEEN to Gaza and the West Bank. I have seen it with my own two eyes. I suggest you take a visit to the holy land and see it for what it really is. Nobody in America has clue what the situation is over there. Its hell......
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