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Old 09-22-2008, 06:35 AM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,349,921 times
Reputation: 343

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstewart View Post
What do you expext when our schools are substandard, children would rather be a movie star than a doctor or teacher, and the average news broadcast caters to someone with an eighth grade education?

lol I think that is clever. Compare movie star to doctor and why become a doctor.

A movie star barely "works" and gets millionS not to mention all the gifts, free meals at restaurants,etc and treated like they cured cancer . No school needed and felony is fine .

I do agree that "news" is trash and does not represent the average American. Most of us want real news.
We do not care about celeb trash and second it is on we change channel or go do something else.
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:40 AM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,349,921 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
a better idea would be that only those who have served the country should get to vote.... SERVICE GARRENTEES CITIZENSHIP!!!!!

They do have that in army. We had a guy in our platoon from S.Africa.

He had think a 4 yr active duty term than would get citizenship.
It isn't easy because they MUST be fluent in English ,read and write and background check before getting the okay.

I don't know how many are given the chance and not sure but heard only combat mos/jobs offer it .
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,083 posts, read 2,296,313 times
Reputation: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
a better idea would be that only those who have served the country should get to vote.... SERVICE GARRENTEES CITIZENSHIP!!!!!
How about only those that can spell get to vote.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:04 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,725,471 times
Reputation: 572
I think an IQ test would be pointless... I know some very bright individuals who are completely apathetic when it comes to politics. They simply don't care and will vote party line because they're not willing to dedicate the time to researching the issues.

One thing that I think would help on our bond votes that we have here in Texas, is having each person who votes to increase spending on a bond to write out a symbolic check for the amount their household would be responsible for paying if it were evenly split among all households. I think people associate increased spending with spending other people's money and not their own, and if they had to quantify that spending in relation to their household, it would make them choose wisely which spending bills we pass.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
789 posts, read 1,336,774 times
Reputation: 146
This reminds me of a song.

Quote:
there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:22 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,386,802 times
Reputation: 7627
Would I go for an IQ test before being allowed to vote?

NOT A CHANCE.

I believe in these words "All men are created equal" - not just the smart ones, or the rich ones, or the hard-working ones, or the God-Fearing ones..... but rather ALL PEOPLE - that means ALL of them (dumb, smart, black, white, employed, unemployed, whatever) - we ALL have a stake in our nation. If you are citizen then you get a vote - that is the nature of Democracy - and I stand by it.

Ken
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,736,918 times
Reputation: 11089
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Not even close to the truth.

Humans are social beings, and intuitively understand that people working together are more efficient, and a competent authority planning the work is indispensible.

I'd be really interested in knowing how you made the leap from an elected body organizing publc works, to someone else having power over my life and that of my loved ones.

With a few rare exceptions like North Korea and the Khmer Rouge, even highly authoritarian regimes pretty well keep their hands off the rights of individuals to go about their daily lives.

Governing bodies make laws. Laws restrict freedoms, restrict individuals' rights. If I choose to smoke, for instance, shouldn't it be MY choice? If I choose to drink alcohol (I don't), shouldn't that be MY choice? Why make "rules"...rules restrict freedom.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:54 PM
 
Location: on the coast of somewhere beautiful
201 posts, read 656,877 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Governing bodies make laws. Laws restrict freedoms, restrict individuals' rights. If I choose to smoke, for instance, shouldn't it be MY choice? If I choose to drink alcohol (I don't), shouldn't that be MY choice? Why make "rules"...rules restrict freedom.

Yes, governing bodies make laws. Our constitution was set up to allow Congress to make the laws that were necessary and proper in order to carry out their duties as defined in the constitution (and if you read Article I, you will see that their powers are VERY clearly defined). The court system in our government does not make the laws, but rather defines them through precedent- there are still many, many court cases today that are setting new precedents for future cases. The executive branch of the government is responsible for making sure the laws that Congress passes are enforced, and of course, these laws all trickle down into local governments.

I fail to see how the law is restricting your freedom- what exactly is it that you want to be "free" to do that you are not allowed to do under the current laws? Neither of your examples support your point. If you want to smoke, then do so, just don't force other people to breath your second hand smoke- after all, not all of us choose to smoke and not all of us enjoy the effects of inhaling second-hand smoke. Rather, step outside and smoke. This is a courtesy that has been made into a law in some cities because people are not courteous nor respectful of others. Also, regardless of whether or not you drink, your example of alcohol consumption also does not show a restriction of your freedom. In the lovely 1920's, prohibition was passed. It has since been repealed as it was found to be unconstitutional. If you choose to drink yourself into a stupor every night, fine. The law allows that ...as long as you're 21. The drinking ages were raised by every state when studies suggested that many young people abused their rights to alcohol.

As for your last statement, or rather question, the rules were originally written to define and LIMIT the power of the GOVERNMENT. The writers of the constitution had a very sore relationship with the monarchy of England (of which the Revolutionary War was the result) and were determined to have a different form of government, one in which the power rested within the people, not the government. They wrote the Articles of Confederation, which resulted in a weak central government. In the Articles of Confederation, the power rested in the states and in the people, which was great until people started realizing that the government needed to tax in order to pay for things such as law enforcement. The Articles of Confederation died with Shay's Rebellion, when people realized that the weak government was powerless to enforce local laws and maintain uniform policies among the colonies. So our founding fathers came together and rewrote the constitution, this time setting up a federal system, where the majority of power rested within the central government, but allowing numerous powers to be dictated to the states. However, because they were still a tad burnt from dealing with the English monarchy, they wrote the constitution to define the powers of the government to ensure that the problem would not arise later. Because Congress makes the laws, you will see if you read the constitution that their powers are very, very specifically defined. Article I is the longest, most in-depth section of the constitution because of this. Also, interestingly enough, you will see that the laws that have been passed (especially in the last decade or two) deal more with courtesy issues (many of which were non existent 100 years ago) than trying to restrict rights. Inevitably, when laws are created, not everybody can have all the freedom they want. However, some laws, such as those defining murder as an offense, are intended to keep the general public safe and were created to provide security and safety for the people.
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,736,918 times
Reputation: 11089
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenplover View Post
Yes, governing bodies make laws. Our constitution was set up to allow Congress to make the laws that were necessary and proper in order to carry out their duties as defined in the constitution (and if you read Article I, you will see that their powers are VERY clearly defined). The court system in our government does not make the laws, but rather defines them through precedent- there are still many, many court cases today that are setting new precedents for future cases. The executive branch of the government is responsible for making sure the laws that Congress passes are enforced, and of course, these laws all trickle down into local governments.

I fail to see how the law is restricting your freedom- what exactly is it that you want to be "free" to do that you are not allowed to do under the current laws? Neither of your examples support your point. If you want to smoke, then do so, just don't force other people to breath your second hand smoke- after all, not all of us choose to smoke and not all of us enjoy the effects of inhaling second-hand smoke. Rather, step outside and smoke. This is a courtesy that has been made into a law in some cities because people are not courteous nor respectful of others. Also, regardless of whether or not you drink, your example of alcohol consumption also does not show a restriction of your freedom. In the lovely 1920's, prohibition was passed. It has since been repealed as it was found to be unconstitutional. If you choose to drink yourself into a stupor every night, fine. The law allows that ...as long as you're 21. The drinking ages were raised by every state when studies suggested that many young people abused their rights to alcohol.

As for your last statement, or rather question, the rules were originally written to define and LIMIT the power of the GOVERNMENT. The writers of the constitution had a very sore relationship with the monarchy of England (of which the Revolutionary War was the result) and were determined to have a different form of government, one in which the power rested within the people, not the government. They wrote the Articles of Confederation, which resulted in a weak central government. In the Articles of Confederation, the power rested in the states and in the people, which was great until people started realizing that the government needed to tax in order to pay for things such as law enforcement. The Articles of Confederation died with Shay's Rebellion, when people realized that the weak government was powerless to enforce local laws and maintain uniform policies among the colonies. So our founding fathers came together and rewrote the constitution, this time setting up a federal system, where the majority of power rested within the central government, but allowing numerous powers to be dictated to the states. However, because they were still a tad burnt from dealing with the English monarchy, they wrote the constitution to define the powers of the government to ensure that the problem would not arise later. Because Congress makes the laws, you will see if you read the constitution that their powers are very, very specifically defined. Article I is the longest, most in-depth section of the constitution because of this. Also, interestingly enough, you will see that the laws that have been passed (especially in the last decade or two) deal more with courtesy issues (many of which were non existent 100 years ago) than trying to restrict rights. Inevitably, when laws are created, not everybody can have all the freedom they want. However, some laws, such as those defining murder as an offense, are intended to keep the general public safe and were created to provide security and safety for the people.
Well, as another example, IF I work on my car in my driveway, how does that hurt YOU? Yet, someone will make a rule that you can't work on your car in your own driveway, or that you can't have a car on blocks, or that you can't paint your house lime green and purple.

Sure, it makes your house look ugly, but that's YOUR choice, your neighbors shouldn't be able to tell you that you can't do it.
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,736,918 times
Reputation: 11089
Lincoln ruined the intent when he went to war against the Confederates...since they felt abused by the federal government, and wished to withdraw from it.
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