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Park, your answer that this is a democracy was to whether a person should be FORCED to pay for others,it seems from this you believe in the use of force to make others comply.
That is not democracy.
Sad to see someone gleeful at the thought of forcing others to pay.
Not that I would pay,I would simply stop working and go on welfare and make YOU pay for me....
Greatday:
You wanted to distinguish access to heathcare services and the cost of those services.
The costs have to be addressed. I think it's quite possible that the "marketplace" is misallocating its resources to chase corner cases, and this might distort the pricing of many other services. I haven't seen from anyone an explanation of the dramatic rise in healthcare spending. Disentangling what is SPENT by healthcare consumers (this shows up in the GDP figures) as opposed to what are the COSTS that drive the PRICING of healthcare services (patchwork, inefficient, monopolistic packaging and distribution of those services via insurance companies) would be important. I don't have that answer. But no one can say that there isn't a severe problem with the organization of the system we have today. God help Bob Dole and his "there is no crisis in American healthcare" under Clinton.
Park, your answer that this is a democracy was to whether a person should be FORCED to pay for others,it seems from this you believe in the use of force to make others comply.
No, I meant that it is a democracy such that the electorate decides the rules that determine who pays how much for what services. Our political system has already de facto decided (though today's system doesn't answer very well to the wishes of the majority of the American People, with 45 million uninsured and thereby representing a public health risk and high cost to the rest of the public) to have the system we have today, and it's not working very well. I believe there is plenty of pent-up demand among the electorate to direct their representatives to change the system to take a more rational direction.
IBM actually does a nice job of discussing why the current system is unsustainable and ways they recommend working towards a universal health care system by 2015, both to increase availability of care and to reduce costs, if anyone is really interested. It is a 72 page document, you have to register to get it.
Thet did show a list of comparable current costs for procedures that was interesting. Some examples.
Heart bypass US $37000, Mexico 14000, Singapore 13,500.
Knee replacement US 21,000 Mexico 10,500 Singapore 10,000
Hysterectomy US 19000, Mexico 4500, Singapore 4200.
If we can devise a universal health care system that would lower costs for everybody to get them more in line with most other countries...would people like to take a look at that?
Or would that still be distasteful to them even if they had to pay less personally, because they would be contributing to a universal system?
Greatday:
You wanted to distinguish access to heathcare services and the cost of those services.
Nope - that was not the question. Here, let me repeat my post with the question (from post #182):
Are we talking about access to healthcare, or the potential financial burdens?
Because, if you talk about financial burdens, I'm sure we can come up with a multitude of examples where someone, with a marvelous health insurance policy, that pays all of their bills, still has filed for Bankruptcy due to being off the job for 2/3/4 months etc and has lost income.
What would you suggest we do in cases like this? The medical bills got paid - but, they still lost their house
IBM actually does a nice job of discussing why the current system is unsustainable and ways they recommend working towards a universal health care system by 2015, both to increase availability of care and to reduce costs, if anyone is really interested. It is a 72 page document, you have to register to get it.
Thet did show a list of comparable current costs for procedures that was interesting. Some examples.
Heart bypass US $37000, Mexico 14000, Singapore 13,500.
Knee replacement US 21,000 Mexico 10,500 Singapore 10,000
Hysterectomy US 19000, Mexico 4500, Singapore 4200.
If we can devise a universal health care system that would lower costs for everybody to get them more in line with most other countries...would people like to take a look at that?
I have to tell you, the comparisons above, while accurate, are somewhat an "apples / oranges" thing because the areas you mentioned have different cost factors including rent, personell, wages, etc. Then, there is the cost of MALPRACTICE INSURANCE - Mexico and Sinapore - there is NO MALPRACTICE INSURANCE - you cannot sue a doctor for malpractice
IBM actually does a nice job of discussing why the current system is unsustainable and ways they recommend working towards a universal health care system by 2015, both to increase availability of care and to reduce costs, if anyone is really interested. It is a 72 page document, you have to register to get it.
Thet did show a list of comparable current costs for procedures that was interesting. Some examples.
Heart bypass US $37000, Mexico 14000, Singapore 13,500.
Knee replacement US 21,000 Mexico 10,500 Singapore 10,000
Hysterectomy US 19000, Mexico 4500, Singapore 4200.
If we can devise a universal health care system that would lower costs for everybody to get them more in line with most other countries...would people like to take a look at that?
Or would that still be distasteful to them even if they had to pay less personally, because they would be contributing to a universal system?
Healthcare regulatory costs
The healthcare industry is likely the most heavily regulated industry in the United States.[66] A Cato Institute study suggests that this regulation provides benefits in the amount of $170 billion but costs the public up to $340 billion.[66] The study found that the majority of the cost differential arises from medical malpractice, FDA regulations, and facilities regulations. Part of the cost arises from regulatory requirements that prevent technicians without medical degrees from performing treatment and diagnostic procedures that carry little risk.[67]
My response is that under a new system that kind of case would basically not occur because the patient would not be spending the dollars out of pocket. A new system would have to use some scheme of rationing care and of identifying what is an acceptable minimum degree of recovery of quality of health for the patient under the default level of service provided. Then probably the patient would have the option of spending his/her own dollars to get service (or an additional degree of recovery of quality of health) beyond that default level.
The new system would have to include a scheme for offering regular preventive care, so that the patient would understand that skipping preventive care services would necessarily increase the cost to him/her later of reaching more than the minimum acceptable level of recovery of quality of health after services have been rendered.
At some point in the history of the new system, all the new entrants into the system from youth would provide a baseline of continuing preventive care. When something new would crop up in the person's health, it would be addressed by health care providers in the context of how diligently that patient had been following the preventive care plan.
Or would that still be distasteful to them even if they had to pay less personally, because they would be contributing to a universal system?
This is the "Me" generation after all! They wouldn't take a second look if you were dying on the street. They will walk over your dead body.
Aren't these the same people who deny climate change? After all they think that the oil addiction is sustainable--just fight more wars in oil rich countries.
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