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Republicans don't "hate" public education. That is just plain false.
What many want - on both sides of the aisle, is parental choice as to how the parent want their child educated. Choice to send their child to a school where their child can get the attention their child may need to excel.
Sure, public schools are limited by funding. Then again, every entity is limited by funding. You have to do the best you can with what you got.
Why do some public school do great things - while other public schools, in the same district - with the same funding, don't do near as well?
Let parents educate THEIR kids the way the parents want.
I do get it sir/ma'am.... but I'm not going to continue engaging you in the circle of babble.. we obviously disagree... thats ok..
I don't advocate anything that you are accusing me of...
Sure you are. You insist on trapping academically underchallenged students in the public schools that are undereducating them, unless their family has the money to pay for another alternative.
Quote:
It is apparently clear from this an a couple other statements you've made that you have an axe to grind with the public system for whatever reason..
Actually, I've been quite clear about the reason - public schools are UNDEREDUCATING way too many students.
Quote:
I don't believe this is about the kids for you..because your tone and tactics do not lead me to believe that.. Instead i think its more about your anger and disgust for something you fundamentally disagree with.. socialist programs.. Of course I'm just reading between the lines on that.. but You do not have the tone or expresson of someone that works with these kids on a regular basis.. I'm sorry.. I just have a hard time buying you..
I am just not sold on the privitization of education on the public dime...Its one of those things that looks good on paper.. but bring about a whole new set of issues once its in full swing... and then there's no turning back..
Its kind of like privatizing social security... it sounded really tempting at one time....
Our public schools have been top rated in the world in the past.. there is no reason why they can't be again and I for one have not lost hope yet...
I wish you luck on your endeavors in whatever role you play in education in america...
I never advocated privatizing the public school system. I have ALWAYS advocated providing school choice, public or private. Why do you insist on reframing the debate incorrectly? That's intellectually dishonest, calling YOUR motives into question.
"Why do Republicans/Conservatives hate public education so much?"
Your statement (above) on conservatives is unfair, but there is a grain of truth to a disapproval of what many see as a deterioration of learning in public schools (and many liberals express this worry too). In some ways these parents have every right to seek other avenues of learning for their kids. Sadly, some parents may overact to the stream of negative stories they read/hear about in the media about under performing public schools. Sometimes the alternatives are not good choices either.
Most parents want the best education possible for their children. Thing is, parents differ on how to go about achieving that goal. Here in Arizona rural areas we have a preponderance of the conservative Christian mindset, or as some might put it "first obedience to God, flag, country, and discipline." Other parents have a different set of priorities. An example of a private school here in central Arizona is: American Heritage Academy - Building Tomorrows Heroes Today
As you can see from the school's mission statement; uniformity, 'Christian values,' and patriotism is at the top of the list, with 'In God we trust' prominently displayed on the schools facade in the picture. It's interesting to note that the school states the highest regard/respect(adulation) for God and the Declaration of Independence in life, yet Jefferson who penned said document was a strident proponent for the separation of church and state, and Jefferson had many wise opinions on the coexistence of religion and country that I believe run counter to the ideology of institutions like the American Heritage Academy. I believe regardless what some well-meaning parents might think, students are deprived of a more rewarding educational experience by being sheltered in a place of learning lacking in student population diversity and adhering to strict uniformity (although some studies I've read suggest it is helpful in the youngest grades to some extent). It's a good thing that regardless of location and schooling, children with the intelligence and perseverance to achieve can rise above almost all obstacles put in their way.
Last edited by Ria Rhodes; 02-21-2009 at 02:25 PM..
It's a good thing that regardless of location and schooling, children with the intelligence and perseverance to achieve can rise above almost all obstacles put in their way.
What people don't realize, though, is that the sentiment you expressed above is a myth. I have no idea why people believe that is true.
The Other Crisis in American Education, linked earlier in this thread cites achievement data studies that have found a precipitous drop in achievement among the top students, and a substantial drop in achievement among the mid-level students over the past several decades. While they have been dumbed down, alarmingly so in the case of the top students, the struggling students have made very minor gains.
Republicans don't "hate" public education. That is just plain false.
What many want - on both sides of the aisle, is parental choice as to how the parent want their child educated. Choice to send their child to a school where their child can get the attention their child may need to excel.
Sure, public schools are limited by funding. Then again, every entity is limited by funding. You have to do the best you can with what you got.
Why do some public school do great things - while other public schools, in the same district - with the same funding, don't do near as well?
Let parents educate THEIR kids the way the parents want.
You are absolutely right. I explain to all of my minority Democratic friends that Republicans have done more to help them achieve better public education opportunities as well as private. Democrats have done a great job at coning the people they try to put down into voting for them.
What people don't realize, though, is that the sentiment you expressed above is a myth. I have no idea why people believe that is true.
The Other Crisis in American Education, linked earlier in this thread cites achievement data studies that have found a precipitous drop in achievement among the top students, and a substantial drop in achievement among the mid-level students over the past several decades. While they have been dumbed down, alarmingly so in the case of the top students, the struggling students have made very minor gains.
Thanks for the url to the Atlantic Magazine article on education. It's interesting. I would like to see other articles a little more current. Not to say age alone negates the value of information/opinions. We've had seventeen years of data to digest since that 1991 article.
Sure you are. You insist on trapping academically underchallenged students in the public schools that are undereducating them, unless their family has the money to pay for another alternative.
Actually, I've been quite clear about the reason - public schools are UNDEREDUCATING way too many students.
I never advocated privatizing the public school system. I have ALWAYS advocated providing school choice, public or private. Why do you insist on reframing the debate incorrectly? That's intellectually dishonest, calling YOUR motives into question.
Once the government turns over taxpayer funds to private education interests, then public education WILL HAVE become privatized.
Thanks for the url to the Atlantic Magazine article on education. It's interesting. I would like to see other articles a little more current. Not to say age alone negates the value of information/opinions. We've had seventeen years of data to digest since that 1991 article.
From a more recent article:
"Fifteen-year-olds in the U.S. rank near the bottom of industrialized countries in math skills, ahead of only Portugal, Mexico and three other nations, according to a new international comparison that economists say is bad news for long-term economic growth.
Two of the study's most unsettling findings: The percentage of top-achieving math students in the nation is about half that of other industrialized countries, and the gap between scores of whites and minority groups -- who will make up an increasing share of the labor force in coming decades -- is enormous.
The U.S. ranked 24th among 29 countries that are members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsored the study. ...In a wider group that also included 10 nonmembers, many of them developing nations, the U.S. tied Latvia for 27th place. The bad news is likely to be repeated next week with the expected release of another international math comparison. The U.S. scored near the bottom of that survey, the Trends in International Math and Science Survey, or Timss, when it was conducted four years ago.
The study suggests that there aren't nearly as many bright kids in U.S. schools as there are in other countries -- which could undermine U.S. dominance in technology-related fields. The study also indicated that huge numbers of U.S. students can barely do math, meaning the U.S. lacks the advantage of a generally well-educated population, which also can spur growth.
...Those generally low-scoring groups, because of population trends, are becoming an increasing share of the labor market. "It's their productivity that will determine economic growth and whether my generation gets Social Security," says Harvard University economist Richard Murnane." WSJ June Kronholz on the U.S. performance in Mathematics on the PISA test
It seems many who want to keep the status quo, and keep students who are being undereducated trapped in their public schools, don't understand that there are HUGE societal costs associated with undereducating students.
Last edited by InformedConsent; 02-21-2009 at 05:46 PM..
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