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It may require mixing in the sense that they can't be segregated..
however, their segregation would not nor should not be based on wether they speak english as a second languare or are learning english.. It would be based ontheir academic performance in class.
Lets say you have an ELL/ESL student in say a math class. They are performing well in the class, passing the class and have no problems with the work being assigned. They are doing well. Well, then that student should be left in that math class. There is no reason to seperate them from the class.
However, if they are taking another class but are not performing, not passing the class then they should be sent to a different class with other students who require special attention for whatever reason (and the reason does not have to be language.).
To discriminate based solely on ESL / or ELL is NOT sufficient enough. IT's the PERFORMANCE in that particular subject that should matter.
To discriminate based solely on ESL / or ELL is NOT sufficient enough. IT's the PERFORMANCE in that particular subject that should matter.
The learning is at different speeds TM. Again - teaching to the lowest common denominator. Why should kids who can learn faster be held back because of those that can't?
That tells me that neither of you have either been in a classroom (as a parent, or teacher), or at a school board meeting in at least 15 years.
Therefore, I suggest you do to have any credibility as to which you speak.
Otherwise it's just getting silly, so good day all.
LOL.... whatever GN.. I have credibility.. I LIVED and sold homes in an area where schools were extremely important and knowledge of district performance and functionality were important and closely tied to home values.
I also exmaned the SD where I moved to BEFORE I choose an area to relocate to. I know how the school is performing . This particular SD has a great reputation.
Don't need to go to a school board meeting for that..
Also.. ESL/ELL may not be an issue where I live now.. because it's not primarily an area that has a large population of non english speaking people...
Now I'm not talking about all Republicans. But ever since I got my teaching degree, I noticed that conservatives, in general have a much more hostile attitude toward public ed. than liberals. My Democrat friends have always encouraged me in my career choice, while some conservative friends act like "well...whatever floats your boat man...". One friend even tried to get me to switch careers because public schools were so "anti-God". I got the impression that you can't be a true conservative and agree with universal public education. I really believe that what I'm doing is very beneficial to society.
Now I know public schools have problems, and there needs to be reform, but why are so many conservatives wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
If you would just teach the Republican curriculum, you'd be fine:
The learning is at different speeds TM. Again - teaching to the lowest common denominator. Why should kids who can learn faster be held back because of those that can't?
WHAT PART OF NOT KEEPING UP WITH THE OTHER STUDENTS.. do you NOT understand.
If they are learning at a slower level BECAUSE they are having difficulty with the language. that would mean they are NOT KEEPING UP..
but.. to say that is ESL/ELL is learning at a slower pace BECAUSE of that would be ...well wrong.. YES>. that student will have to put EXTRA work OUTSIDE of the classroom , perhaps, to keep up.. and if they don't they won't..
BUT if they need to be taught at a slower level.. then they should be put in with other kids that are learning at a SLOWER level for whatever reasons..
They would still be mixed..not all who are slow learners or who are not performing are ESL or ELL GD
Also.. ESL/ELL may not be an issue where I live now.. because it's not primarily an area that has a large population of non english speaking people...
Yet, in my area of the country, ELL students are very common - in Las Vegas for instance, there have been some estimates of upwards to a 1/3 of the students in the Clark County School Districts are children of illegal immigrants - and they (the students) have little knowledge of english yet, they HAVE TO BE placed in "regular" classes - where they actually hold back other students from learning.
Once again, I will remind you that I have provided numerous links, studies, and books to back up what I have said. You, on the other hand, have provided no more than your personal opinion. If you truly wish to refute what I've said, provide supporting factual evidence. Note: that does not mean personal anecdotes.
Once again I will REMIND YOU.. that those studies DID NOT VISIT EVERY DISTRICT IN EVERY REGION OF THE COUNTRY
Show me a study that has visited EVERY district in EVERY State in this country and I'll shut up.. BUT YOU CAN'T!!!
What makes you think that the U.S. is the only country experienceing those cultural changes? Other countries students are STILL kicking our students' butts even with all of the current cultural distractions.
LOL>.. hmm.. considering we are the EPICENTER of the pop culture.. I'd say otherwise.. and , remember.. I'M MARRIED TO a European.. I know VERY WELL their culture and that of their children.. They do not spend nearly as much time in front of the TV and the Video Games or with cell phones as we do.. WE ARE THE COUNTRY OF CONSUMERS.. and BOY do we consume. Of course they are undergoing cultural changes..Duh.. who doesn't.. but let's get real here. We know how it truly is here vs the rest of the world. We are a country of excess.
You do realize that you could not disprove what I've said for the very same reason. Look at the discrepancies on the chart linked below. Look at the percentage of students your school district claims are proficient (meeting and/or exceeding standards), and how many actually are proficient. Seriously - look into this and determine if you are happy with your state's spread. Find out exactly what the score ranges are for proficient on your state's test. It may not be what you think: NAEP Researchcenter - NAEP and State Equivalent Percent Table
The I'm okay with my schools so screw everyone else mentality has got to go. Give people a CHOICE like other countries do. If you like your public schools so much, stay there. If other people want a better education and can find it elsewhere, LET THEM. Stop TRAPPING students in schools that aren't educating them.
LOL.. hmm.. Fist.. where the hell is Lake Wobegon USA.. LOL. THAt is NOT my SD.. nor any district in an area that I grew up in.. So it doesn't apply
And did you NOT READ the line where I say.. GREAT.. if vouchers work for your AREA.. go right ahead.. BUT I'm opposed for it across a NATIONAL BOARD!!! Because schools are so localized what works for YOUR district won't for others. I don't begrudge you or anyonen doing what is best for your area.. but STAY OUT OF MINE ..we'll figure out what works best of us where we are, thank you very much!
I was reacting to the poster who said that ESL students belong in Spec. Ed.
i did not mean special ed in the sense of children with disabilities or mental disabilities.. I meant in a slower learning class..
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